Hello,

I am doing some research for a television company based in Bristol, and I would like to find out more about how the shortage of farm vets is affecting the farming industry.

 Any comments would be very much appreciated - why you think there is a shortage; what affect it's having on your farm; and especially how it's going to ultimately affect the consumer (if it hasn't already?).

 If anyone would be willing to have a quick chat about this, please do send me an email at liznewton@tigressproductions.co.uk

Otherwise, all replies and comments to this post are very welcome!

Many thanks,

Liz

I'm lucky that the vets I use are large animal friendly. I get a good service regarding the sheep, but as soon as I take my springer spaniels in for their boosters I get 'we reccomend blood tests for such and such' or 'they should really be on this super duper veterinary formulated diet' etc. etc. The reality is that domestic pets are where the money is and this isn't lost on the veterinary profession!

Well where we are, we have a vet who for domestic animals is great, and can hadle other animals too but if you have something specialist, such as rarebreed pigs, trying to find a good pig vet who knows alot about them is a pain and you have to go far and wide - i am speaking for my area, may be the case is different in other areas of the country?

It seems that the veterinary profession rely on pet insurance policies to repay most of their obscenely high charges for dog and cat work.

There is less incentive to do farm work, and a combination of high charges (for travel, diagnosis, treatment and drugs) and poor prices (for livestock and livestock products) has resulted in a much reduced demand for their services.

I would go as far as claiming that their greed has resulted in an increase in welfare problems on farms - it is easier to let an animal die than to face an horrific vet bill.

Their are of course, a number of exceptions.  My own vets for example.

There is a shortage over here as well, the reasons are simple.  Small animal owners often have a price is no object attitude when it comes to their pets, few if any farmers have that attitude about anything in life.  Also, it is alot easier to clean the teeth of a poodle at 2pm than it is to shove a cows uterus back in at 2am, and then have the farmer cuss you over the phone if the cow dies(I might have done that once).

Thank you all for your replies - it sounds like there's a mixed bag of opinions here depending on your region...

I'm interested that in some cases it's more economically viable to put livestock down than to pay for vet bills - has anyone else had this experience? Do you think this is contributing to rising food costs for the consumer?

 Also, the comment that it's hard to find vets that are able to diagnose cattle disease - this sounds like it could be potentially devastating if there is a new disease epidemic? Does anyone think that the lack of specialists might prove to be a problem if, for example, bluetongue reaches the UK, or a new outbreak of an unknown disease is found? Again, how will this affect the consumer?

 Thanks again for all your replies, your collective wisdom is invaluable!

Liz

liz_tigress:

it's more economically viable to put livestock down than to pay for vet bills

There is no question that it is not economically viable to have a Vet treat sheep. However, most sheep farmers will call out the Vet at some time during lambing. Most farmers can handle the many problems themselves and also give subsequent treatment and nursing to ewe and lambs, but there are few farmers that would not hesitate to call the vet as soon as they have reached the limits of their own, often considerable, experience and knowledge. I have not yet met a sheep farmer who, on those occasions when he has called the Vet, has done it because he wants to protect his money. He calls out of a sense of duty and loyalty to the Ewe.

In the case of sheep, because of their low value, (not withstanding recent improvements) farmers have taken more responsibility for dealing with animal health and consequently many vets have seen that side of their business decline. Vets, like farmers. live in a world of birth and death and face their consequences regularly. This has led to their being able to better cope with the decisions required when resolving conflicting emotions, values and time scales. For example, recently, I had a tricky case with a Ewe which, after five days nursing, I correctly diagnosed but called the Vet to confirm. He did so and advised that "Additional treatment was possible but outcomes uncertain and that, because of her pain, (which he could alleviate) we should put her down. At that point he could have given injections but being a farming vet I fetched the shotgun and we shot her.

Had I been a townsman with a pet, the Vet would undoubtedly have been told to give treatment which could have run into hundreds of pounds with no greater guarantee of success. This illustration will I hope, confirm your view that more than economic factors are in the minds of farmers when they use the services of Vets for both livestock and pets.

I have also found that Farm Vets have a different approach to farming clients than their other clients. They assume a greater knowledge of animal behaviour, physiology and biology as being held by farmers and also assume a less sentimental view towards the animal is held. (Farmers rarely let affection or respect for the animal descend into sentimentality)

An early point you made, is that it is becoming more difficult in parts of the country to get farming vets. I guess a number of reasons lies behind this such as a diminishing base of stock farmers, greater reward from treatment of pets, more women going into the profession and a decreasing pool of farming families from which vets often came. In addition the educational requirements for potential Vets compare favourable with those of GPs and the disparity between incomes, working hours and life style may contribute to some potential vets choosing medical practice instead.

Increasing costs and complexity of running an independent surgery associated with regulation, labour, space and local authority costs, may also militate against Vets choosing to offer services to farms.

All the best with your research

liz_tigress:

Does anyone think that the lack of specialists might prove to be a problem if, for example, bluetongue reaches the UK,

Ummmm, bluetongue's already here isn't it or am I starting to believe the governement spin and you media types know different?

Just for the record, we have the most fantastic vet interested in deer about 30 miles up the road. His being miles away does make call outs expensive, but his enthusiasm has infected his staff as well and justifies the extra expense. He also knows our local vet and is prepared to liase with him and offer advice on day to day deer stuff. Listening to other people we are very lucky to have him nearby. I am in a fairly unique situation though, as a deer that shows signs of illness is usually a terminal deer anyway.

He also says nice things about my cakes when he comes on a visit, truly an expert! 

Just the same situation here in my part of Canada. Our vet retired [exhausted ] [and Irish!] last February and since then we have had no local cover. One dairy farmer I know shot a heifer that needed a caesar, as the now nearest vet would not come out on a 100 mile round trip at 3am with heavy snow on the ground. The farmer was told to trailer the heifer in to the surgery.

We have Great Pyr sheep guardian dogs. These dogs are raised with sheep, live with them all the time, and think they are a superior sheep. They kill coyotes, and without them it would be impossible to keep sheep here. One needed an injection recently and the new  vet would not let me administer it. To be fair we had never met.

So I had to take the 120 lb dog into the surgery 50 miles away. The dog was a little upset,as it stays with the sheep 24/7 and has not been anywhere but this farm since it was 6 weeks old. I thought the vet would come out to the truck to treat the dog, but no he wanted it on his table in the surgery.

It was interesting to see the faces on the row of people clutching their cats and dogs when I walked in with a Grizzly Bear on a piece of bale string!

However he was a perfect gentleman, took it all in his stride and didn't eat a single cat. [several hamsters and the odd budgie, but not a single cat! ]

I guess being in the heart of rural West Wales, our vets are inevitably quite focussed on large animal practice.  However, they also appear to serve the pet owners of the district very well too; the two functions don't have to be distinct.  In fact we are lucky to have two very good practices in the area.  The practice we use is growing with another vet taken on this year and expansion into an adjoining property.  What is more, three of the four vets are ladies, so I don't hold with the theory that more women in the profession has to mean a focus on pets over livestock.  That being said I do know of at least one young vet who moved to the city in order not so much to avoid the livestock as to avoid the night shift.

Ultimately I think most people in our pampered post-industrial world will be aiming to work where they can earn the most money for the least effort, as a subsidiary they will be looking for variety.  So faced with the choice of specialisations probably many vet graduates will head for a small animal practice in town on a 9-5 shift.

Firstly, I offer my sincere apologies - my comment about bluetongue reaching the UK must have sounded very naive! What I really meant was, if a disease like bluetongue were to reach epidemic proportions (causing widespread concern like FMD), would there be enough expertise and man power in the farm vet industry to cope with it?

I'm aware that many of you must have faced huge issues with bluetongue already, and I didn't mean to dismiss that.

I find the idea interesting that the decline of farming families is leading to the decline of farm vets - has this traditionally been where farm vets come from? If this is the case, does this mean that as farms grow larger (more livestock per farmer), there will be fewer farming families and thus fewer farm vets entering the industry?

Also, has anyone had any experiences of supermarkets or other big retailers becoming more picky about meat and dairy products - ie. what antibiotics have been used, or pressure to be organically produced? I'm wondering if the concerns of the increasingly 'food-savvy' public are actually affecting the farming industry.

Thanks,

Liz

We have had three vets since we started with sheep about 15 years ago because the first two gave up large animal work, after building super new surgeries to cater for the dogs and cats.  Our present vets seem more dedicated to farm animals and, despite also having new surgery premises have two partners and two other vets solely on the large animal side.  As they have taken on a lot of extra farm clients from those that have closed down, I suspect they are doing OK.

A few years ago we had a farm visit from, a group of students from the University of Utrecht vet school.  We were surprised to hear that in Holland the students specialise in particular types of animals for their last couple of years training and are not allowed to treat animals outside their specialisation.  They were equally surprised that vets in the UK qualified to treat all animals. 

When we lived in Hampshire we had a few hens and ducks. One of the hens became unable to move and OH insisted we took it to the local (mainly small animal) vet at 9pm one evening. After a minute or so he said he couldn't do anything and did we want it put down and a  PM done? After five minutes an inpacted crop was diagnosed and we duly received a bill for £80.

After that it was a case of  if they don't get better they are culled.