Hi guys and gals, wasn't sure if this should go in Talking Tackle or Biofuels, so I've put it here instead.

I was wondering if anyone knows of any bio-friendly or recyclable wrapping film for silage bales, I tried Google but can't seem to find anything.  With the price of oil forecast to rise to $200 a barrel in the near future the conventional film will become too costly.  I thought a green version might be a cheaper and readily available alternative, if such a thing exists.  Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Ok, after a lot of searching the web I found something called bio-plastics, apparently plastic can be made from starch in wheat, potatoes etc and will decompose in a compost heap (it's already used in carrier bags by some supermarkets).  Unfortunately, although all the manufacturers say it can be used to make bale wrap, no one seems to actually use it for this purpose.

Maybe Volac or someone will cotton on to the idea in the future, but for now it seems we're stuck with the old stuff that costs too much and causes disposal problems.

It would be great if we could have an alternative, I wonder if it was manufactured, if it would be cheaper financially? Would you end up using more per bale for some reason?

Whilst on the subject, how do most people store their used silage wrap? We have been storing ours outside on pallets as per the waste recycling companies recommendations. I heard the other week that some companies prefer it dried and rolled so that it is compact. This must weigh less.

I suspect it must depend on what the end use is, but when you are paying for disposal by weight it does make you query the method (and the rainfall!) and if you can get a better deal with a different company based on your storage management it has got to be worth a look. 

So, who does what with theirs and what does your waste company do with the plastic?

we take all oures out back and burn it every time we finesh a tube of bales we just push boath ends into one pile add deasal and some wood and leav it to burn works well but not very eco frendley. 

Well yes, a very practical way of dealing with the issue, as you say not great for the environment. Its Illegal over here though hence all the storing and paying for it to be collected.

Do you know the price of bale wrap over there in Canada this year? Just out of interest?

hasty exit:

It would be great if we could have an alternative, I wonder if it was manufactured, if it would be cheaper financially? Would you end up using more per bale for some reason?

I'm guessing that there must be some financial benefit judging from the widespread use across Europe, and the normal stuff gets more expensive every day.  It is also cheaper to get rid of, so if Brussels realises this the free collections may disappear.  And from what I've seen of the other bio-products available the quality should be equal to conventional plastic.

hasty exit:

Whilst on the subject, how do most people store their used silage wrap?  And what does your waste company do with the plastic?

We pile ours in the corner of the hayshed, not perfect but at least it stays dry.  We can then roll it up by hand on a warm spring day, saves messing about in the winter.   Who knows what they do with the stuff, I think they make garden furniture among other things.

What is the cost of wrap here at the moment?  Ours is being baled tomorrow, and the contractor has raised the price of wrapping again.

So, the contractor tells me his latest pallet of black was £47 per roll, with our system that's about £1.80 per bale, if it wasn't for the fuel savings I'd consider going back to clamps.  As it is I'm thinking about the American way of not using sheeting at all, just let the top layer turn to muck and seal itself.  A forage wagon should keep fuel use down, but there goes our way of doing a few acres at a time, when it's perfectly ready to cut.  Meanwhile, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a cheaper wrap substitute.  Any other ideas?

Don't forget though with any bio plastic it is degradable and the last thing you would want is it to start breaking down before you have used the bale and judging by the tesco bags if its exposed to extremes like summer and winter it doesn't bode to well for it don't forget that most disposable shopping bags now don't have to survive that long.

We store ours in fertilser bags silage film in the inside part, netwrap in the outside as was sugested by one of the recycle people in our area as the outside bag is the same plastic as netwrap and plastic twine and the inside one the same as the film and it saves having to bring plastic bags in to bag it for it to go.

As for what it is used for it depends how clean it is most netwrap will probably end up in the landfill because the high level of contamination (straw etc) the film the same if it id covered in dung and soil. If it is relively good then road signs and black garden furniture products and according to the recycling people other low end products because a) its not spotless and b) because the dye in the plastic limits its uses. The same for spray cans and similar plastics due to the fact that although the resell value is greater not many manufactures want to use it as it wouldn't go down to well making things like baby bottles out of insecticide bottles no matter how clean they were.

That last bit was from a meeting we had to attend to have ours taken away on how to pack the pastic although it wasn't that condescending as it was really them basically saying we are not being singled out other industries and other EU staes are having to do the same and mainly pointing out the rules and things we have to abide by as well as that which they have to (mainly covering themselves if something went wrong). One big point was to make sure that the plastic wasn't cover in a load of manure or that the plastic bottles were triple rinsed  and dry and not half full of water as they only have a licence to recycle low contaminated products which they are classed and so if something full of water bursts in the baler or it covered in mess that get a very big bill to clean it up which is passed on to the offending person.

Also they warned that some people were starting to get picked up on the foils off the top of spray containers as they were class as high risk you are ment to keep them contained and not free to blow around, should be triple rinsed and disposed of properly  which the recycle company will probably do.

sjk:

Don't forget though with any bio plastic it is degradable and the last thing you would want is it to start breaking down before you have used the bale and judging by the tesco bags if its exposed to extremes like summer and winter it doesn't bode to well for it don't forget that most disposable shopping bags now don't have to survive that long.

Yeah, the shopping bags are supposed to last about two weeks, but they make other stuff as well, like shrinkwrap for pallets and even "solid" objects such as cups, boxes, even pipes,  Some types need hot water to break down, maybe that would be handy for farm use.  I just wish they would get a move on with it, the financial side has got to work with today's price of wrap, and as bio-plastic is made from plants it gives arable farmers another market, which benefits us all (unless you buy in your cereals, but I don't care, we're all grass, ha ha).

Our waste wrap has previously gone to a company making garden furniture and fence posts. I have heard of another company collecting in this area who are using the wrap to create energy, they burn the stuff in a specific way. Trying to find out more about it, but they do want compact and definately dry for this process. Will try to find out more in the next few days, unless someone else out there can enlighten me before beforehand...!

Someone at the meeting said that they had one of the people that helped invent the plastic(s) used and they they were designed with the idea that they went to a incineration plant to be burnt for the generation of electricity but the EU and UK directives mean that it has to be recycled and have value added to it where ever possible. the people heading the meeting said that they had heard the same thing and if they changed it then there wouldn't probably be the schemes going as it would all just be lumped together and taken to the nearest plant.

We just did our first lot of the season and it got me wondering what make and colour seemed to the most popular and reliable as we have got some green silotite and I noticed that in the middle of the roll there were the odd imperfection in it that soon as it started to strech would cause it to rip and there seemed to be a bit in different places in about half the rolls I used today. I checked all the rollers on the wrapper and they seem to be clean. Plus it only seems to occur once on a roll wether it was about half, 3/4's of the way through.

sorey i dont have a clue wat wrape is at over here but probubley to mutch.

robexel:

apparently plastic can be made from starch in wheat, potatoes etc and will decompose in a compost heap

Some years ago small beads for packaging was made from corn starch in an attempt to reduce the use of expanded polystyrene beads. At the time it was more expensive but the main problem was the small it gave off when stored in the warehouses of the packaging distributors.