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The lie of the Land

Last post Mon, Apr 21 2008 13:42 by Isabel Davies. 38 replies.
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  • Thu, May 3 2007 16:18

    The lie of the Land

    Sounds like this programme about farming that is on tonight (3 May, 9pm, channel 4) is going to be pretty graphic. I would love to know your thoughts after you have watched it.

    Isabel

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  • Thu, May 3 2007 23:16 In reply to

    • thehod
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sat, Oct 14 2006

    Re: The lie of the Land

    As a tenant dairy farmer who cannot afford all the labour he needs due to low ex-farm milk prices, and with no family to use as unpaid slaves, I couldn't get to see the programme.  I started work at 6am and have just finished at 10-45pm.  I grabbed some food where I could, but otherwise no break at all all day.  Even if I recorded the programme, I don't have time to watch it.  I am just keeping up with my professional contacts by computer, and then I had better get some rest before it all begins again tomorrow, that is, if there isn't a calving to attend during the night.  I didn't see the programme, but I think I already know what it's like to work in the modern dairy industry.
  • Thu, May 3 2007 23:26 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    I watched the programme, but it didn't tell me anything I don't already know...

    I found it very depressing, I am wondering how much more these farmers can take?

    I doubt if most people watched beyond the point where the first calf was killed.  The majority prefer their meat to be cheap & pre-packed, and the countryside to be a pretty place full of fluffy little animals.

  • Fri, May 4 2007 2:29 In reply to

    • jazzman
    • Not Ranked
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Leicestershire

    Re: The lie of the Land

    I watched it all the way through, graphic, yes! but true, the reality of modern day farming, at least my years in agriculture were in the fifties, somewhat better then. The supermarkets have a lot to answer for, they won't of course, much to powerful and much to politically influential. As for the public, well the majority won't care, off they trot to Tesco's, and so long as its cheap, it won't matter if it comes from Mars. Farmers!!! who are they, as far as joe public is concerned food is produced by supermarkets and milk comes from a bottle.

    John

  • Fri, May 4 2007 7:29 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    A very sound and true documentary, but i'm willing to bet the only folk who watched it are those who already know the score. Tony (and Gordy) would do well to watch it, as would anyone who shops in supermarkets. Of course, the reality is that it was preaching to the converted.......
    Not every day is baaaaad.....
  • Fri, May 4 2007 9:35 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    Here's my verdict for anyone who is interested:

    1) I was disappointed by the emphasis put on hunting particularly in the first half of the programme. Hunting is a part of countrylife, but it rather gave the impression that it WAS countrylife.

    2) I don't think the voice-over really got to the heart of the problems facing dairy farmers. When they were shooting the calfs they weren't really explaining why. The documentary maker has said in interviews that farmers have been put in the position they have because of the way people eat and shop - but the programme didn't show people why that is the case.

    3) I wish there had been much more like the bit with the agent filling in the SFP form - I think that really showed what farmers are up against in terms of regulation.

    4) I was fairly uncomfortable about the way they were pushing on the gate when trying to load the cattle onto the lorry. One had its leg on the other side and it didn't look good...

    5) The smallholder who said that the countryside had been renationlised on the quiet summed things up pretty well.

    It is clear that the documentary maker is sympathetic to the plight of farmers, but I am not sure the end programme will have really helped the cause.

    As an example, here is an e-mail I have just been sent:

    "I watched this programme on the 3rd of may' and the farmer who killed those calf's just because they are not good for meat' was disgraceful. He could have given them to a sanctuary. Then I saw him kill a horse the same way.  Then noticed he was a fox hunter/killer which did not surprise me.Just wondered how he would like to be cast aside like that, bye someone as unemotional and as hard faced as him. It was humane the way he killed them but why! I just hope heaven exists and he is greeted bye all those helpless animals. I think looking at that man who killed those baby calf's he is just a trigger happy killer of defenceless animals. ( A COWARD) bet he got bullied at school. And no I'm not a vegetarian''  I just have feelings."

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  • Fri, May 4 2007 9:40 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

  • Fri, May 4 2007 10:01 In reply to

    • He his-self
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • North East Scotland

    Re: The lie of the Land

    The bits I saw were very depressing, the lot of the smallholder and small dairy farmer is not easy, where were the larger dairy units? I know I got a shock when I visited small farms in England for the first time, I was expecting more Oliver Walston style than the almost peasant farming I found, doesnt look like it has changed much lately at least here Crofters get a better deal.

    Stravaigin Aboot.
  • Fri, May 4 2007 10:45 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    I have just been e-mailed by someone called Teetee who has asked me to post the following. I thought some of you might like to reply:

    "I happened to flick over a channel last night when I came across The Lie of the Land which was already started and probably the most appalling, upsetting and blood thursty reality programme I've watched ever. The first thing I saw was 3 lovely baby calves being shot for no apparent reason, other than (they're not worth enought money because they're a cross breed!!) Well maybe some stupid plonker shouldn't have cross bred them in the first place or at least, allowed it to happen if that is all the dignity they get in their short, sad life. Then to drag and throw their poor dead bodies onto the back of an open truck for all and sundry to see I thought was disgusting. Maybe someone should do it to him and see how he likes it. Yes I'll put up an argument and a fight, any day of the week. Then to see the same farmer, later on in the same programme shooting a horse. teh man whoever he is has made himself grossly unpopular amongst animal lovers all over Britain, with his cold hearted attitude and lack of compasion towards 1), the animals themselves and 2) us innocent viewers who were watching unexpectedly. I see he was also a hunts man, very proud wasn't he sat up on his grey, parading through the country bumpkin village for all to see. I wonder how many of those poor animals (horses and hounds) he actually cares for. This is a very blood thursty man who clearly takes pleasure in causing animals suffering an pain. Okay, fine Mr fox might be a nuisance and a pain to you, but we happen to luv em and I bet he doesn't follow any of the rules about the ban on fox hunting, I bet you!

    As for the farmer with the pheasants, I found this extraordinary to watch, but was concerned about the number of birds being packed into a single crate. But please, wish they'd stop moaning, haven't got enought money, being undercut, whatever, they're breeding "game" to play a "game" is all that it really is. How many people out there realise that our common Pheasant originally came from India and how lucky we are to have these birds in our land at all? I couldn't help but feel a bit sorry for this guy though, when he was going through the forms of long winded, complicated questions regarding his farming and farm land. Please executives at the top, don't blooming expect simple farmers to understand these complicated, inundating questions.

    Throughout the programme there was much focus on the general public and supermarkets and how us general public don't understand what's really happening or how things are in farming today. No we don't know because no-one tells us. Our knowledge of farming is limited, so come out and tell us. Get in our schools, colleges, group meetings and educate us because NO NO we don't know."

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  • Fri, May 4 2007 10:46 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    Another comment e-mailed in:

    "I thought it was a very good program in that it showed non-farmers just how hard farming is these days. The fact that it got there via Hunting was, I suppose, necessary to justify the killings but this may have given the impression that hunting was a part of farming which it obviously isn't. However, that apart, it may hopefully lead some people to think about the real problems with farming in this country. The comment that "the government has nationalised the land" was also thought-provoking and a very good way of describing what this government, with the help of the EU, have done by de-coupling farm subsidies from food production. Once that link was broken, farming, whether arable or stock, became just another business and that is why farmers (now just producers of commodities) have been squeezed by their customers, the supermarkets, until they can no longer survive. Unfortunately that doesn't hurt the supermarkets who just source from somewhere else. I think that what we need now is for someone like Molly Dineen to make a program just about farming and why it has got to where it is so that the people of this country can be asked the question "Do you actually want (and are you prepared to pay for) British farming or do you not really care" in which case we can all sell up and go do something else while the countryside returns to wilderness!"
    Brian Wing
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  • Fri, May 4 2007 11:04 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    And another e-mail comment from a non-farmer:

    "I am writing to register a complaint against the appalling treatment of the animals upon last night’s Channel 4 documentary "The Lie of the Land".

    As a committed animal lover, and long term supporter of animal rights and liberation, I found the content and attitude to be most upsetting and in one word, barbaric.

    The notion that innocent calves deserved death, because they were "cross bread" is an irresponsible, inhumane and barbaric mind-frame for someone to have when defenceless animals are entrusted into his care. Surely it is not the animals’ fault their individual pedigree had been altered, but rather the irresponsible owner who bread them. These animals could have easily been given to a number of animal rights groups and charities who would have found them homes and shelter. Instead they were murdered.

    Equally, one has to wonder, as to whether any of the acts committed during this programme was in keeping with the new regulations of the Animal Welfare Act and previous legislation controlling the conduct and treatment of the welfare of animals.

    I must also register my repugnance at seeing him so proudly on his stead at the hunt. Whatever your view on hunting, it is cruel and unnecessary.

    What gives anyone the right to declare foxes a "nuisance" for doing what is natural to them? A fox only takes what it needs to survive whereas the same cannot be said for us humans.

    If the aim had been to draw sympathy from the populace through that programme, I can assure you that it will not be successful."

    Kind regards

    1983andrew

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  • Fri, May 4 2007 11:09 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    From Ross Langford, Leeds:
     
    I saw one of your respondents write that  people who don't farm would probably have switched off after the first calf was shot. If so, I didn't join them.
     
    I'm a relatively 'urban' bloke who probably carried most of the unthinking prejudices against farmers and farming communities that many of you seem to suspect.
     
    However, this brilliant film challenged my beliefs and values in an uncomfortable way, raising questions I cannot (and the film did not by itself) answer. In its ruthless focus, it managed to show the humanity inherent in farming and was empathetic without being biased.
     
    A walk in the countryside will never be the same again for me. But If me and others like me understand your world a bit better because of Molly Dineen's film, that can only be in your interest. Don't tar us city folks all with the same brush (that's our trick!) or you risk being as ignorant about us was we seem to be about you.
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  • Fri, May 4 2007 13:11 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    I found this programme very dissapointing.  I was hoping it was going to put accross the dificulties the industry is facing.  It managed to re-emphasise the link between hunting and agriculture which I dont think helps to win over public opinion. 

    It showed too much killing (which even I struggled with) and where relevant points were made about paperwork, cross compliance, supermarkets, imports etc etc they were not emphasised anywhere near enough.

    I dont think this will have helped us win over the hearts and minds of the public.

  • Fri, May 4 2007 13:36 In reply to

    Re: The lie of the Land

    I've just been asked to post the following comment from Amy Brown:

    "I would like to write a reply to the various posts who have commented on the 'lovely baby calves' and the idea of 'giving them to a sanctury' or an animal rights group.
    I truly believe that these people and I'm sure the many others who have such narrow minded view point of last night's programme really need to get in