That's the phrase used more than once at last night's Real Food debate at the first Real Food Festival at Earls Court.
The charge was that all the "side issues" such as GM, food miles and the like are just that. The real deal is much bigger and according to food miles guru Tim Lang a suite of eight fundamentals need addressing as a whole not in part.
But what alarms me at debates such as these is the middle-classness of them.
One delegate ventured to suggest that food quality issues (of the type discussed last night - in other words trying to define what 'Real food' means...you get my drift) aren't just the preserve of the wealthy but the poor too. But I'm not sure I agree. A lot comes down to price.
It's all very well to talk about the importance of reconnecting people with where their food comes from...but to what purpose?
One disconnect in this whole debate is not so much the disconnect between consumers and where their food comes from but the disconnect between those who espose that and why it really matters.
Tim Lang spoke to me at some length last night after the debate saying we needed a dramatic shift in our attitude to food (at all levels) and it seems to me that this will only be achieved by seizing the really compelling arguments and explaining them in a way that demonstrates why every one of us should care...and change.
Well meaning debates - like last night's one - don't really advance the issues much other than making the converted feel a little better about themselves.
What would have been really impressive would have been to have had a large crowd of hard-pressed, low-income delegates at the debate and to have found out what they really think.
In the meantime, it's worth taking a look at this Green, Healthy and Fair report.