Commercial Showcattle Society launches at Yorkshire

So, now crossbred animals are a breed are they? Commercial cattle are butchers' cattle and as such should be judged by those using them as a final end product, not by a handpicked selection of part-time showmen who think they know best.

I've yet to meet a showman who know more about prime cattle than any butcher I know and none of them will need "training" by a committee.

Additionally, show classifications are the jurasdication of the relevant shows, other interested parties have no need to interfere with this process.

As for etiquette, some might say the committee members themselves would do well to learn some before preaching to others!

I completely agree with you Stockman!!! I think the announcement of this so called society is a farce! In principal I beleive the commercial show fraternity have a right to their own group as such, they are a major part of the show circuit and of course a major part of the British Beef industry. However, rarely does a true "butchers" animal take a championship!

I agree butchers should judge - after all they are the ones killing and selling the exhibits, maybe then we wouldn't see extravagent prices paid for commercial show cattle!

Does this mean the commercial animal will be allowed in the interbreed at every show? That could upset the apple cart!

hmmmm.
I think this needs to be watched carefully from afar.

Is anything broken that needs fixed?

Will new 'cliques' now replace the usual breed followings.

You only have to see what was going at a few of the 'Royals' last year to see the 'inner wheel' in operation.

Not for me right now thanks - I'll plough my own furrow and let everyone else please themselves too.

However I hope I can be proved wrong and that this is turns out to deliver what the 'spin' is promising without the rest......

I'm not sure anything needs fixing, other than a few more butchers as judges which is seems a few of us are asking for!

In terms of what the spin is promising.......does is there anything there that needs to be delivered? You're right why fix what isn't broken?

I think this has more potential for harm than good!

HMMM! Interesting one this!

Stockman strikes a chord....!

Have to say that the commercial cattle world is very "clique" and circulates round a small circle of people.

What is the purpose of this new commitee? Do they feel that they're needs are not being met?

Just watch this space I say....

Sounds like they haven't got enough to do!

Fair comment Colonel. Having seen the language used by the new committee, they describe commercial cattle showing as a sport. And here was me daftly thinking cattle farming was a business.

Mind you, with some of the characters involved with this organisation perhaps sport is more appropriate - they'll need a referee a few times I dare say!!

Who does this Mr Hollingsworth and his band of merry men think they are.

I have been breeding and showing cattle for 40 yrs, and i am sure i can manage another 40 yrs with out the advice of the likes of this comical lot.

Commercial showing has always been a pleasant hobby, until this lot deceided otherwise.

Maybe they would benifit from some training in how to breed champions, instead of spending ridiculous money,afterall most of them are only paid stock men.

As for etiquette Mr Hollingsworth showed how little he has of this at the Royal Show last year.

I still wish someone would answer why this committee has been set up - I can't believe there is the need for one! It's the "breed society" bit that gets me - commercials aren't a breed and there are so many differences between a Charolais cross and a Blue cross - we just need judges that know what they are doing, which pretty much we get, the rest is down to the exhibitors. As for the objectives - I don't even think these are the objectives of a normal breed society, let alone the commercial one?

.....It's all a bit too over the top if you ask me?

The lack of "etiquette" shown from an exhibitor yesterday (who is on this so-called committee) towards the respected and well known commercial judge (also on this committee), speaks volumes in terms of how ridiculous this new committee is.

To be seen and heard betting with a fellow exhibitor that you are going to win the championship and then spit your dummy out afterwards in an incredibly rude fashion to fellow exhibitors in the shed and round the ring says it all - it's completely laughable!

With the characters involved on this committee this really is a farce. Who is really teaching who here? This behavious shows they are in no position to educate new breeders, let alone existing ones and frankly they shouldn't be allowed to do so anyway!

Yesterday's behaviour was an example of poor showmanship, childish tantrums and complete rudeness - far more representative of this committee's antics than any of there objectives.

I have to say that looking at the blogs it seems that the people making comments about the new society havent come up with any constructive ideas themselves. I am a newcommer to the commercial show world and looking at the people on the directors list i would have to say that most have been involved at the highest level of showing.I say lets have a representative body for commercial showcattle maybe then they will not be treated like second class citizens at shows . Lets make this society work for us to allow commercials into interbreed competions,teams of four and pairs etc. There are in my opinion more reasons for this new venture than to not support it.

Scottie
I think the reason that no-one is giving anything constructive is that it's not really needed - the comment has already been made - why break what hasn't been fixed? I agree with your comments about getting the commercials in interbreeds, pairs etc - they have the same right to be there as all the other breeds. I think it's the nature in which this has been set up that is agrevating everybody. If you haven't been part of the commercial world that long, then you haven't had much time to see what we all mean in terms of the characters involved. Yes some are great enthusiasts and have accolades to their names, but not the ones that matter! There are some great commercial breeders, show men and judges out there - but unfortunately I have a nasty feeling those people will be put down the list in favour of the clique!

Scottie,

You should ask yourself why you think that they are treated like second class citizens?? They are SO CLIQUEY and hate anybody doing well! Some of them speak to you as if you were two... and as for competitions if your face fits you win it's just a sham!

Commercial cattle they are and that's what they should be classed as. I think that people are losing touch with the very aim of these animals which is to produce meat!

Baby limmie
On further investigation the commercial showcattle society has already been set up, there is no list of judges at present and having spoken to one of the directors new members will be able to put selections forward for judges. If we dont have this society then how do you propose the commercials making shows put us in interbreed competitions etc. I have also looked at a lot of show schedules and found that over the last few years there are a number of shows where you see the same judge time and time again. Also there seems to be a distinct fear of letting young people judge at county and royal level are the exhibitors afraid or maybe the shows lack the courage to propose the younger generation. We show commercials as the end product of all the pedigree breeding lets have more information at shows explaining to the public about what we are showing and what we are doing as an industry where there meat comes from and how its produced the legislation we have to work to and the pressures we face as an industry. Lets use this new society to better our cause,i am sure not everyone will be liked on the comittee but that is part of life ,if they are prepared to make our commercial showing and breeding more high profile then lets use this society to better our cause, I think we should make inroads to getting ourselves on this comittee and putting our views forward to make sure all our views are heard.

Scottie
I know the society has been set up - hence it's being launched next week! I've also known this has been brewing for quite a long time, and in the early days people have gone to meetings with ideas for judges. One person has told me that a name was given and was thrown out straight away as the chairman didn't like him and made a point of not wanting him to judge anywhere - so that's not fair. This is my biggest gripe with it all. Yes I agree with all your points about pushing commercials forward, letting them have their chance in interbreeds, but the childish, bully-boy tactics shown by these people over the past will not get that done. As for raising the profile of British Beef - isn't that for the job of the NBA??!!
As for your point about judges - I don't think that's fair about young people not being allowed, at less than 30 I class myself as being young and have had a couple of judging stints this year and not just on my local patch.

Some shows let the commercilas in interbreeds, others don't - some even let them in the pairs and groups, some don't - I say leave it to the show's discression - they soon learn when they make mistakes as the exhibitors tell them so by not coming back!

This so called "society" is redicilous! How can anyone agree with such a farse?! Who are they to tell experienced people how to judge an animal?! Every judge has a different opinion and want a different type of animal. The skill is to try and bring the type of animal out to suit the Judge. This clique is mostly made up of desperate men who pay redicilous money for cattle and fail to win in the end!!

This forming of the so called commercial showcattle society has confirmed to many that this clique does exist.
As you call your selves in the farmers guardian the leading exhibitors and Judges another joke i hope.
To develop and protect the Interests of all is fine but not just your own as this is the case.
To get Commercial cattle into the interbreed and groups of 3 is also fine, but don't you think the other 99% of us should have atleast had a say. All other societys vote for chairmans and vice chairmans but there agen this is no normal society.
I would like to question the behaviour of one of the committee members at a show in North Wales last May Bank Holiday where he threw his toys out of the pram because he failed to win the group of three.
All jokes aside go ahead and launch this committee at the Yorkshire Show, but be ready for reality to hit at the Royal Welsh.

In an ideal world a " breed society" for commercial cattle may sound like a good idea, however I am not yet fully convinced. Being new to the commercial beef showing world I cannot say that I know any of the committe members well enough to comment on their suitability/objectives/ambitions, however there does seem to be more than a passing anymosity towards a good few of these members, surely this will be a stumbling block to attracting new members?!
And how does this society intend on running itself financially, will committe mebers be donating their free time and "expertise" free of charge to help run things, will there be a high membership charge? a large source of income for other breed societies is birth registration/notification and transfer fees etc, well your not going to get those here are you?
Don't get me wrong, i'm sure a successful society will be a great help to the "breed" and I wish the current committee all the best.
However, one does wonders if something is done badly will it do more harm than good?

My opinion is that this so called "society" is a total joke as the people running it are a bunch of backstabbing crooks who are stupid enough to pay ridiculous money for show potential cattle and want to make sure they have a recommended judges list that only includes people who can be "bought" or manipulated into giving them the sought after prizes. They are like spoilt kids who cannot bear to loose and just because they spend the big money they think they should win all the time. I have seen the dummy throwing taking place at various shows and it makes me laugh to see grown up men behaving like this - after all it is supposed to be a hobby isn't it ? The reality is it has now got out of hand and a handful of people who are prepared to give the silly money for these calves are spoiling it for the rest who still look upon it as a hobbby. I think it there will be egg on faces quite soon !

The idea of having this committee is totaly barbaric. A comercial beef animal should be shown and judged as just that, a commercial beef animal. it is up to the stockman themselves to present the correct animal to what they feel the judge would require.
This is and should be part of the fun of showing. The judge should then have his/hers own right to put forward what they are looking for.
The committee are a complete waste of space. Looking at the proposal of this committee through younger eyes, they are doing nothing to encourage the younger generation to enjoy a life long hobbie.
I having grown up with farming and showing in my blood, feel totaly disheartened having watched the tantrams/ antics and dumming throwing of so called "professional adults". They are doing nothing but seperating themselves from the other stockman who in the end will win a battle that didn't need to be started.
If i can understand the concept of showing and having fun, then why carn't the committee.
Maybe some of the committee would be better working for defra, as they don't have alot of idea either.

How would you feel if you had to pay to be a member and then also pay to register the commercial cattle that you think you might show - I cant see any other way to fund the society unless they are hoping for huge amounts of sponsorship money but I cant see that lasting.

The whole point of showing in my eyes is a shop window to let others see what type of cattle you have at home and for the pedigree breeder it helps to get their names known so when it comes to bull sales etc so the commercial buyers have seen them around or at least know of them.

Showing is also a hobby and as a pedigree breeder I have never made any money from showing. I also run a commercial herd and used to show alot of commercials but we have stopped that now and when we did the cattle were always picked to suit the judge - at the end of the day it is one man's opinion and if you are going to throw your toys out of the pram then dont go to the show as it spoils the fun for everyone else who don't mind where they stand in the class.

I think the setting up of a commercial showcattle society is ridiculous and probably only there to stroke a few people's egos - what is wrong with what goes on now? I agree that the commercials should be allowed in the interbreed and pairs etc and at some shows they are, but that's up to the show's discression. Is this society going to make your commercial animal worth anymore? I cannot see how they will. As with all societies cliques will be formed and disliked and unless controlled the whole thing becomes unpleasant and does no good for the hard working breeders and their cattle.

If you'd heard the rubbish that was being spun at the Yorkshire Show las week, lots of honest showmen (pedigree or commercial) would have been embarassed! I heard it all from being placed further up the line becasue your animal cost more to actively discouraging some people from joing and pushing others to join!

If these characters had come together to produce a young stockmans club actively encouraging youngsters to join and help teach them stockjudging, show prepartion techniques, grading etc then i would be in favour - but they're not!

It's such a shame this is going on as the shows should be a great excuse to get together and have fun and market our quality stock. i feel for the honest showmen out there who glared at if they win with a homebred animal or something they bought for a reasonable price at a market!

Its quite plain to see that nobody attended the meeting who replies on this site, i took time out to attend the meetig and was suprised to learn that no list of judges or indeed anything has been done about it.The new society is activley seeking members to take positions on a new council,these are the people who are going to make decisions about what the society does. The directors of a company are there to make sure the buisness is run in the proper fashion not make all of the decisions about what the society does .There was a lot of talk about the younger generation and some interesting points came up ,there was discussion about family membership and also about people taking on new positions in the society. The subject of the controversial judges seminars was talked about ,when i first heard about it i thought it was a silly idea ,however it was proposed that a small gathering of people would get together to discuss there methods of judging with each other in order to pass on ideas to new and old judges alike not for one individual to force there opinions on potential judges.I might also add that there was no talk of seminars being compulsory .It was said that shows should make it clearer on schedules what type of class people are entering ,IE butchers class or show potential. It seems to me that the problems with the society are personal and if people put those issues to one side then the society has a great future

I have read your comments Tb and i did attend the meeting in Yorkshire, I walked out after about 15 mins having listened to the garbage long enough.
Unless i am missing something here, I was always under the impression that when a new society is formed candidates got nominated and seconded, and out of these candidats a vote would take place to to enlist that person for certain positions, not the case with this lot, they were all self appointed. Possibly the only way to secure their position.
There should be no discussion with any body about methods of judging, the appointed judge should do his/her own job.They are there as their own person to jugde as they see fit on the day, whether anybody agrees with them or not it is that jugdes decision, thats what showing is all about.
The only people that have made any thing personal with this society are the members them selves, because a certain few of them can't hack loosing, and until they can take lesser positions in the ring with pride with out bad mouthing the judge or fellow show men that stand in front of them, then I dont think there is much hope for this society with the members it has now.

My contention is that badgers are tangetial to bTB. They the PBI. No one disputes that badgers carry bTB, as do humans. This must have been the case since cattle were domesticated milleni ago. But it doesn't follow, as the NFU insist but scientists dispute, that a dramatic cull of badgers will lessen the amount of bTB in cattle. More power to the campaign to increase spending on vaccine research and veterinary controls on cattle disease. To target, literally, the badger is harming the merits of the farmers' case. And heaven knows, farmers need some progress and much more governmental awareness of their plight.

Readers are referred to an article in today's Observer newspaper July 13, 2008 p19 http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jul/13/ medicalresearch.health

Etiquette, do the Directors of this Society even know the meaning of the word, because from where i have been standing over the years i haven't seen much etiquette from any one of them either on the inside or the outside of the show ring!! I have on the other hand seen lots of temper tantrums,sulking & bullying tactics. Showing is supposed to be a hobby & a pleasurable experience to advertise our breeding & stock & generally it is, that is until people who in the main are not from a farming background begin to form these ridiculous little cliques and lets be honest try to teach granny how to suck eggs. Most of us show folk know show etiquette & how to conduct ourselves & maybe the Society & its Directors should look a little closer to home or better still in a mirror & give themselves a good talking to before telling us what we should be doing.

Ive just joined this society, i dont know about anybody else but my reasons are i dont want to let a few people control the shows. Im not going to let them have it all there own way it will be interesting to see who takes up positions on council to implement some of the policies of the society. Some of the ideas seem quite good others not so,hopefully with some different members the society can be steered in the right direction. I have no fear of anybody on the directors list least of all the much talked about chairman,im going to take the opposition cause to the fight to see if some resolve can come out of this.

I have just been listening to a debate on the radio about which new sports should be included in the olympics, seeing as showing commercial cattle is now considered a sport will this new society be pushing for classes to be included in the London 2012 games?!!! This will be good as i'm looking for a competition to help me get there.

What a load of nonsense! Just a bunch of clowns with too much time on their hands......

What ARE these people on? A society made up of carpet fitters, mini digger operators, two bit butchers, ex coppers & sore losers the list just goes on! I am very surprised at some of the committee members, because I didn't think that they would be interested in drivel like this!

There seems to be one reoccuring theme? what's the point of this society? What do they think that they want that's not provided already? It seems to be that they want to have the right "faces" judging so that they can win! The behaviour of some of the committee members was a disgrace at the royal with their true colours shining through! They are worse than 5 year olds.

These are the people who think that they are the outstanding in their field and that they have got the god given right to tell more experienced people how cattle showing should be done! A little modesty and grace would go a long way.

I have been selling & breeding cattle for the past 30 years. Cattle leave the farm every week of the year & are hung up all over the country, having triumphed in the show ring & also carcase competitions surely people with the day to day expereience of producing cattle to what the market wants have more of an idea than these part timers (well - would you call them even part timers???) of how commercial cattle should be produced. This gives a real punch in the face to the true stockmen & women out there.

Some of these jokers think that by buying an expensive animal that this AUTOMATICALLY gives them the right to win the class. Well, Welcome to the real world! Try doing it the hard way.

This "idea" should be put back into the show box and the lid firmly shut!

Moo moo
I been sitting on the fence about this society and reading your comments now confirms my reasons to join.I dont want to be part of any name calling or bad mouthing. Just something to think about if you are a loser does that make you a nice person.

Top dog, I see your point about joining to keep a check on what goes on. However, by joining you also condone what's going on and I for one won't be doing that all the time I'm breathing.

As many have said there's no need to fix what isn't broken, its up to show societies how they classify commercial cattle and I for one would urge all societies to resist the recommendations of this clique at all costs.

Commercial classes of both cattle and sheep used to be about either promoting what your pedigree stock could produce in commercial situations or a way to promote your own commercial stock.

Now the cattle world has become a farce with hobbyists with more money than sense dominating it, I just hope the sheep job doesn't head the same way!!!!

I have recieved a list of all the persons who were involved in an initial meeting of this society back in january , To be honest ithink all of us responding on this site should do some more research into it.There were about 20 people involved and i would say that it would be very difficult to be derogatory about them all,maybe we should all step up and make changes to this society as i feel that it could be very useful to us all both pedigree and commercial.Has anybody been to a member of this society to find out the full details of what is happening, Lets get the facts and make informed decisions not based on hearsay or idle gossip ???

As a show organiser who has been carefully watching all these comments, i would be keen to hear from people with suggestions for the Commercial classes at the East of England Show, with constructive ideas please!!
Tell me what you want...
kbuttriss@eastofengland.org.uk

Kerry

I'd say anybody out of the area, I know East of england is historically good at that. i always like being judged by someone who hasn't seen my stock that year. You also don't want to lose any entries by selecting someone from the exhibitoris list. Get a good balance of round the country and you should be good - I'll send you a list to your email.

Miss Piggy

Believe me I have done my research on this on many levels and have spoken to many people involved from the initial start up idea to people on the committee now. I hear what many people are saying about the potential benefits and I agree with most. However, if you are involved as heavily as i think you are I would advise you to speak to the people on the committee and tell them to speak clearly about the objectives of this society, as it is them who are telling people at shows what they really hope to achieve!!!!

hold on people, guys fawkes isn't until November, please keep your powder dry until then.

By the way I have 16 class 'A' guaranteed 2012 first prize winning cross-bred embryos that can be implanted specially for the London Olympics if Dwain's rumours are true (see above).
If anyone is interested. £6k each, just add your own senseless idiot.

Does this bunch of non-farming non-cattle breeding, self appointed collection really think that their 'Mafia' style bitter and twisted thoughts would ever have any influence on shows or the farming community? How sad.
If they are short of work may i suggest they apply to Hilary Benn care of DEFRA !!

Having read with interest the comments made about this so called “breed” society and having over 45 years experience of the “show scene” I shall have my say
1-The “committee” are, as many have said, only out for their own gain.
They make the Russian mafia look like innocent kindergarten children.
2 “Cross Bred Cattle” should not be included in a BEEF interbred at shows {I am more than aware that this already happens at some of the insignificant shows}
3-A interbreed beef championship is for “Breeding” cattle only. Fat Stock or Prime Stock classes include steers, which cannot be classed, as a breeding animal should not be included. If a show wishes to have an overall show champion that is a different matter and could then include Beef, Dairy, Prime stock and any other section champions they see fit.
4-The education of the young people entering onto the cross bred show scene should be done by those that have the good manners to except the placing of the person that has been asked to judge, and will then quickly learn the names of the judges that look at the wrong end of the halter,
5- This SO CALLED society should not be given any credence and be swiftly relegated to the rubbish bin, from where they came….

Commercial Showcattle Society - It is now a month since the launch of the Commercial Showcattle Society. I have watched with interest the views of the subscribers to this site during that period. It is obvious that the Society has concerns to be addressed and all have been noted. The only comment that offends is "ex copper". The reality is a retired Detective Chief Inspector an achievement of which I am proud. I am also proud to append my name to this item. It appears that no other blogger has such pride to date.
Jim Hollingsworth, Chairman, Commercial Showcattle Society

Mr.Hollingsworth, i am sure 99% of the bloggers on this site have somethings that are very proud of with out having to brag about it.

All one can hope for is that when you were in employement you exercised a little more decorum, manners and etiquette, than you have shown to most fellow showmen, in public, when things don't go your way.

Having witnessed some of the outbursts at various shows over the years, and reading the replies on this blog, its no wonder people are against such a fasical society

Hard Working Stockman - no name, no credibility

Jim Hollingsworth, Chairman Commercial Showcattle Society

Whilst surfing the net I came upon this site quite by chance and as a townie I know nothing about farming or indeed cattle.However, after reading all the comments made, it seems to me that some of you may be a tad envious of a society made up of carpet fitters, mini digger operators, two bit butchers and ex coppers. who appear to have had considerable success in showing cattle.Is farming realy as easy as this?

Someone should explain to Jim Hollingsworth (retied Detective Chief Inspector) that one uses an assumed name when blogging.
After reading comments made on this site I can understand why there are so many negative remarks about this society and the committee when the chairman makes the comment of “no name, no credibility” He would to better to admit that he and the society have no credibility.

I was confused by Motorway babe as I could not find any reference to the committee having had ‘considerable success showing’ as I read it the members think that by controlling this they can achieve more success for them selves.

To Thenightwatch

I got my information from the original press release that says - Every national show without exception in England and Wales has been won by at least one of the directors of this society, as has almost every county show. - Is this information incorrect?

Motor way babe.

If you did a little more research you will find that 95% of commercial exhibitors have at some time won a major, national, or county show in both england and wales. The information on the orginal press release was to make the " directors" of this committee look better than most. Unfortunatley they are not.

Mr Hollingsworth - i think at the moment i would be saying that by publishing your name against those comments your credability is about as good as Gordon Browns.

Anonymous

Thank you, I now appreciate that farming is really easy when 95% of all people that participate in the commercial show world can win national and county events.

hehe!!!

It keeps a rocking & rolling!

This thread is so entertaining.

Motorway babe... you seem to have missed the point made by the majority of the bloggers....have a read again!

Miss Wales

Surley the point is that you do not have to join this society so why all the fuss.
After all we still live in a democracy, for the moment at least.

My goodness me!

I write as someone whoes life used to be dominated by shows and show-people and I have to say that I believe the Society would be a good thing as commercial exhibitors need to be represented in the same way as pedigree exhibitors. My only concern however, is how the Society will be financed. Breed societies make their money by charging for registrations and transfers etc, presumably this is not an option for this Society. I see nothing wrong with it producing its own list of judges, this is no more than any other society would do.

I am only all too aware of the altications which occur at shows, and I for one am only too pleased to take a respite from it at this moment in time, but what I was not fully aware of was the SNOBBERY! Surely, when someone leads a beast into the showring it should not matter a jot as to whether they are male or female; hail from Cornwall or Caithness; have bred or bought the animal; whether they were there at its conception or whether they had to pay through the nose for it. Neither should it matter as to whether the exhibitor is farming full time or involved in other businesses.

The main issue which needs to be addressed is that for the past two years shows have taken a severe knockback and we all need to pull together to help with their recovery, indeed their survival. Showing cattle is an art form, and to prevent it from dying on its feet this new Society should be whole heartedly encouraged to prevent showing's demise.

I know that 'farmers' are delusional if they believe that they have the monopoly on pride, ambition and deterimation to win when they are in a showring. I say 'bring on the so called two bit butchers and the digger drivers'! We have enough problems within our industry. Live and let live!

To Motorway Bade
In your initial blog on this site you stated that you came upon it ‘quite by chance’.
In your second that your comments were based on the ‘original press release’.
Please tell me where you read the ‘original press release’ and did you come upon this ‘quite by chance’.
Miss Wales seems to have a good grasp of the situation and will probably, like the majority of the people who show prime stock cattle, not join.
Farming, along with many other industries in the UK, is bombarded by useless bureaucracy and red tape dreamt up by people for there own gain, usually money, is this society just another way of placing a unnecessary financial restriction competitors in cross bred competitions in that they will only be accepted if they pay to join ?

Ever the optimist....

It's not snobbery - it's greed! It's a shame but where there is showing there is greed. All types of people show, but when you get a taste of winning its natural you want more - it's the same whether you're showing dogs, cattle, horses etc and the commercial show world is not without its greedy people. Too many times you see a good guy come out with something half tidy, they have a good year and then they get greedy and want to dominate where ever they go - it's human nature I'm afraid. And with that comes the jealous ones - the ones that can't handle the good guys doing well - we see it all the time from a local one day show to a Royal!

I can't wait to see how this pans out, I won't be joining as I don't see any benefit for me - I'm just happy exhibiting locally and taking it on the chin when you get beaten by something better than you and smile and get on with it when beaten by something I don't like! That's showing!!!

Thenightwatch

After finding this site and reading the blogs, I googled commercial show cattle society and read their press release to find out what it was all about.
Not knowing anything about show cattle I then looked up various breed societies.As there isn't a breed society for commercial cattle this society seemed to me to be a good idea.
Or are commercial cattle a bit like mongrel dogs that do not favor any particular breed?
I must say I am now totally confused by the whole thing.
My grandfather was a hill farmer in Shropshire and I wonder what he would have made of all this bickering!

Miss Wales

I did what you suggested and re read the blogs.
One theme kept reoccurring, that of some of the committee members having tantrums and throwing dummies out of prams.
How often do we see footballers bad behaviour and boxers and cricketers and rugby players and wasn't there a famous show jumper some years ago! And who can forget the character of my tennis idol the wonderful John McEnroe.
This sort of thing happens in most competitive sports and should be contained within the sporting arena and not carried on as a personal issue away from the event.
There is nothing wrong in having the will to win. It appears the only people passing these comments are sore losers.
It is a pity that the rest of the country hasn't got the same will to succeed as the successful show people, perhaps then this country would not be in a servere recession.

Motorway Babe
I had also googled commercial show cattle society and came up with 18 sites, non of which had the press release you quoted do you have the address of the site you fond it on ? I did find that it was registered as a company on 30/01/08 nos 06488318.
Yes commercial cattle are the same to some degree as mongrel dogs, and Yes a society for cross bred cattle could be a good thing its just the treasurer and people on the committee that are not, if it was a democratic society they would have been voted on, as a previous comment they are acting like a mafia.
As a hill farmer in Shropshire your grandfather would have understood.

Thenightwatch

I don't know why you couldn't find it on google. I entered commercial show cattle society and it came up as the second and sixth items. One was The Farmers Guardian and the other was a site called Stackyard. Why do you all hate this committee so much? Why not go to a meeting and hear what they have to say? If most people think this is a good idea then give your views an airing and let them answer their critics.

Motorway babe

I'm guessing you've not been around show cattle or show goers very much to make the comments you do! I think sportsman are entitled to throw tantrums - on their wages they can do what ever the hell they like - and also being celebrities, isn't that the norm! When you've witnessed some of the escapades that have gone on then you can comment!

Motorway Babe
The severe recession has nothing to do with peoples will to succeed but with the complete ineptitude and total mismanagement of the government.
Baby Limmie’s reply to Ever the optimist sums up the way the vast majority of people feel about showing.
You wrongly assume that I have not attended a meeting of this ‘society’ and when the chairman dismisses people for a judges list, nothing to do with their ability or experience, only because he doesn’t like them, where’s the democracy, there is none. They are just a few people who want to dictate to the majority, their only objective is that this could bring more success (and money) for themselves and in the long term will do nothing but harm to a sport that anyone can take part in, no mater what their financial situation is.
Shows for cattle are having a hard time due to economic climate and the ever increasing and unnecessary restrictions placed upon them this will not be helped by this society.
The other breed societies, you mention, are for Pedigree cattle, the members pay an annual fee and a registration fee for every calf; their committees are made up of people who have been voted on by the members and are answerable to the members.
I don’t know what part of the UK you are from but if you were to attend a livestock show and talk to the exhibitors (better done after the classes have finished as exhibitors are always nervous beforehand) you could well find this interesting and who knows even as a ‘Townie’ you could also be bitten by the showing bug.

Motorway babe, you seem to have missed out on one fundamental point. Farming isn't as easy as it seems - most if not all the people on the committee of this new society have only won by buying cattle from other, more talented stockmen than themselves. Yes there is a degree of skill in feeding cattle, but quite frankly it pales into insignificance compared to the skill needed to breed and rear these cattle.

As for commercial cattle being similar to mongrel dogs, on this point you are spot on.

Pedigree cattle have societies to register their progeny and promote the benefits of their breed. This society is only there to promote the committee members themselves, nothing more, nothing less.

The commercial cattle show circuit is in need of a serious reality check.

And Mr Hollingsworth, in describing showing cattle as a sport you have done yourself no favours whatsoever. There are some of us who have to make a living out of farming and can't afford to fritter away ridiculous sums on show cattle, come back to the real world and stop pot hunting please.

I have sat back and watched with interest at the latest comments & i have to say that what really makes my blood boil is that Mr Hollingsworth, who quite obviously has missed the whole point of blogging,has the audacity to make the statement of " No Name, No Credibility" to Hard Working Stockman. Dear me how the memory fails you Mr Hollingsworth. Does this now mean that as you are Chairman of this so called society you will have the good grace to sign your name to ALL the correspondence that you send in the future??!!

Motorway babe -

Quite simply showing cattle is NOT a sport, it is a hobby to some, a way of adding value to stock for others, but not a sport.

Success breeds contempt many say, but I don't get the impression of the majority of the bloggers being sore losers.

As a townie I an trying to understand the complcated pastime of showing commercial cattle and trying to get to grips with what it is all about.
There seems to be a big objection to the word sport and as a result I have referred to the Oxford dictionary, which refers to it as " Fun or diversion, pastime of an outdoors or athletic kind, such pastimes collectively, meeting for compation." If this is not the case what would be the best definition for this pastime?

Baby Limmie

Your blog of the 6th July implies you are in your teens or twenties. You have judged twice including areas other than your own patch this year.I can't find any evidence of this despite checking everywhere.
On 8th August you say you only show locally and describe how you deal with defeat.
However despite your youth and limited experience you feel you are in a position to influence one of the largest county shows in the UK, by sending a list of judges to the East of England Show without consulting with the rest of the show world. Unless of course you are running an undercover operation, not open and above board as is the Commercial Show Cattle Society.
You also say on your 10th July blog that you were at the Commercial Show Cattle Society launch event at the Yorkshire show, as I was.
There were 50 people there and in two and a half
hours not one person spoke in the vein you are conveying.

Miss Wales

The dictionary describes a hobby as a favorite pastime and does not mention competition.

Having just come across this site i have had all my suspicions confirmed about the commercial showcattle community. You all need to grow up a bit and take a step back and look at what you have all been writing on this site ,you are all starting to give a bad impression of the cattle world. I as a breeder dont need your antics affecting our industry ,from the outside looking in it just seems all a bit pathetic just remember keep personal issues separate from business.

motorway babe

I think you are going off on a tangent!

What are you trying to understand?

Showing cattle is what it is. End of.

Please see anon comments above!

I enjoy showing cattle, I also realise that it adds value to our cattle, show animals (pedigree or otherwise) can command a premium... in end of the day money talks.

The analyst,

interesting comments, however, I suggest you read posts more carefully before denegrating those commenting.

Baby Limmie does not say she was at the meeting ay GYS, merely at the show and heard what various committee members said, as did many of us. Also, I suggest you haven't studied the judges for various show's carefully enough to see if Baby Limmie's judged this year or not, to be fair unless you know who Baby Limmie is you'll be hard pressed to find the answer!

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but Kerry asked for suggestions and Baby Limmie obliged by sending some, nothing wrong in answering a request for information is there?

Meanwhile Motorway Babe, you continue to baffle, if you are just a "townie" why the continued interest in this topic, if you're not own up to your true intentions of commenting here.

All livestock showing is based on the principle of promoting your own breeding stock for future sales, but for many it has now become a way to show off their wealth and power and merely as already stated pot hunting.

goodness folks, calm down - showing is 1st and foremost meant to be fun and enjoyable - some of the comments are totally unacceptable in my eyes.

I just stick to the adage, if you want to learn how to be first, you have to learn how to be last.
I wouldn't be writting this if it didn't work for me.

Please let this be an end to the unsavoury comments.

Motorway babe
Please, please stop trying to split hairs if as you mentaine you really!! don’t understand what is being discussed on this site then do as the night watch suggested, go to a show and find out, otherwise please but out.

And others
As for Scottie, T.B. Top Dog, Miss Piggy and The Analyst, isn’t it obvious to you that this society is not necessary, not needed and not welcome.

Miss Wales

Your comments on this site are valid, but I sense that Motorway babe should be ignored its may be not wot it seems

Right guys after 71 comments I think enough is enough!!! It's fair to say you have mixed opinion over this society as I'm sure everyone involved would have guessed as much.

I don't mind comments regarding how a commercial animal is viewed, what classes you feel they should be entered in or any other general comments about showing for that matter (after all that's the whole point of being able to comment on a blog), but please leave the personal issues to one side now. I'd like you all to think on what BGCCM has posted above:
"showing is 1st and foremost meant to be fun and enjoyable."
I think that sums it up don't you?

I agree, for some of us showing is fun, hard work but fun. I really enjoy showing commercial cattle and like going to shows, but do feel that at a lot of the shows the commercials do get left out a bit.... Last in the ring, last in the parade we pay the same ammount of entry money as the pedigrees sometimes seems a bit unfair

A meeting has been called on the 14th september at 10am for all to attend,to give their views on the society.It will also give them chance to hear the facts about the society and what it is doing to give the commercial showcattle a higher profile.
The venue is Lower withington village hall which is situated approx 2 miles south of chelford cattle market on the A535. the society hopes as many people will attend as possible.

Re above post - do you have a full press release with details of the meeting, as I'm happy to promote it in the magazine next week if you would like? We get good hits on here, but if you want a really good turn out then maybe that could help. If you do have more details please email them to chrissie.lawrence@rbi.co.uk or call 0208 652 4916

Kind regards
Chrissie

Is this the only meeting you are planning on having? It's a great idea but it's not all that fair on the Scottish, Welsh or even the South West/South East - I know you can't please everyone but Chelford is a fair treck from most places!

This will be the first major open meeting for people to attend,it is hoped that there will be a good response if this is the case then regional meetings will take place to take on new ideas and push forward with the society. The society understands the logistical diffuclties of everyone getting to this venue however we have to start somwhere and if this proves successful then more meetings will take place. The society needs to recruit people from all over the uk to bring a sensible level approach to the society and take it forward in the right way.

commercial showcattle society
The announcement of this meeting is to be welcomed, but would it not have been better to have held meetings throughout the UK before the society was set up, as this might have gone a long way to prove that this was a society for the majority of people who show cross bred cattle.

Any news from yesterday's meeting?

I haven't heard anything as yet - I couldn't make it myself as I was in Northern Ireland looking at Simmies, so I'm hoping to hear something soon!

Well i suppose no news is good news perhaps the "commercial society" has been put in the bin where it belongs.

The meeting was held on sunday with a very good attendance,there were many new ideas put forward .The next phase the society is going to undertake is to hold regional meetings for people to attend,these meetings will be taking place in the next few weeks people will be made aware of the venues and times when bookings have been made. For futher information please contact the chairman on mob (07890738916)or vice chairman on mob (07970061796)many thanks to all who attended and ideas put forward.
Commrecial showcattle society.

Thanks for that - if you could let mne know the set of dates and venues I will publish them on here,

Cheers
Chrissie

the first open regional meeting will take place on the 9th october to be held at the castle hotel landovery the meeting is due to start at 7.30 pm all people in the area of south wales and borders are welcome to attend and bring their views forward. many thanks(C.S.S).

A meeting will take place on the 7th october at Ruthin auction mart,the meeting is an open one for all people interested in commercial showcattle . The start time of this meeting is 7.30pm,and will cover the region of North wales and borders. many thanks (C.S.S)

The meeting took place in Ruthin last night,there was a good attendance with each and every person signing up for membership. Other regional meetings are being arranged and details will be published in due course. Many thanks (c.s.s)

How many attended in Ruthin? How was the meeting in Llandovery?

why!, no reply to the last blog? 3 meetings all in the same area. wot about the rest of the UK? u gon quite? CSC? hav u & yur quron's gon to sleep!
havin red uor bogs TWM got u baged to righs

what's the latest from the society....

Have they had a meeting out of wales yet? ;)

Its all gone very quiet... Is there any news yet ?

wot does this ex copper think hes doin

Well I think that with a 3 month silence, and no activity of any kind atany of the major primestock shows over the winter,this society has missed the boat and are remaining very quiet. Is it still ongoing ?

Does anyone know about the history of South Durham & North Riding of Yorkshire Fat Stock Society? If so who/what/where can I get some information? I've been going through some of my late fathers belongings and found a medal from 1856.. can anyone please help?

ive been showing cattle for many years pedigree and commercial and have won many top awards i know all of the people on the committie and only 1 of them i trust the rest just fix it all and just get pi**ed off when it dont go their way some of you even came off your breed committies because you couldnt have your own way

very nice post, i certainly love this website, keep on it