Mud Hound - All Comments

re: Yield

TeslaCoils — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:22:06 GMT

Bit of cost benefit. If no-one has done the study, might be worth getting some funding. 10ac field suitable for draining in two parts - farmer pays half, HGCA or other pays the other half. Its all good if there is some free money and some good data.

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re: Yield

Roburt — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 10:33:47 GMT

I guess that blog deserved that comment!, Still might be an idea

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re: Yield

TeslaCoils — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:34:28 GMT

You could always come and drain me half a field and we can yield map the differences over a few years!

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re: Back in the UK

TeslaCoils — Sun, 23 Sep 2012 20:17:31 GMT

Can you post a schematic of how they would drain say a quarter-section field? Do they have ditches around the edges, and things akin to IDBs or pumped drainage?

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re: Technology is a wonderful thing.

Roburt — Thu, 09 Aug 2012 07:50:32 GMT

Regarding moling, yes your right, as long as you have soils which can support a mole, normally reasonable heavy clays.

The effect of drainage on blackgrass is definately an area which I need to look into. i have heard quite a few comments similar to yours.

I would be surprised if drainage only added 3/4 t/ha, from what I hear it can be quite alot more than that, depending on the type of soil and what if any drainage has been installed in the past.

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re: Technology is a wonderful thing.

TeslaCoils — Sat, 04 Aug 2012 16:11:55 GMT

So a scheme with less pipes but needing moling say every 5/6 years vs a scheme with more pipes?

I must say that it is pretty obvious here that the worse blackgrass is in the areas of poorest drainage, so a reduction in BG, plus say 3/4 of a ton per hectare yield increase for the next 30 years doesnt sound terrible at £180/t for wheat.

I'm thinking more as to what sort of extra rent I would be willing to pay of the landlord redrained some fields......

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re: Technology is a wonderful thing.

Roburt — Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:35:26 GMT

TesiaColis

To answer your Dutch question first, yes, they pump water out of the ditches, and the rivers in some places, on a scale which I could not believe. One person I meet described where he lived as a bath tub floating in the sea, if the pumps stop large parts of the Netherlands would be under water.

It is also true that on the very light soils some water does seep back into the land, however the rate of such seepage is slower than the rate which the drains remove the excess water. It is also mis-leading to suggest that all the soils are that free draining, some are but others are very light but heavy enough to hold back most of the water. I should also mention that whilst parts of west Holland are five metres under sea level, the majority of the country is only a metre or so below sea level.

The second part of your question is one of the subjects I’m spending a lot of time looking at. Land drainage is pointless unless it is economic, the increase yields must outweigh the cost of installation. There is a great deal of data proving the economic valve of drainage, up till the early 1980’s MAFF ran experimental field unit, conducting research on every aspect of drainage. The evidence was pretty conclusive; the problem is that all the data is old. In The Netherlands and Canada they have data to prove that the re-payment time in drainage is as short as three years. I’m working on finding more data which is up to date or producing some new data myself. One problem is that in other countries drainage is consider such a good investment that they is no need to prove it through research and as I’m sure you are were, they is very little research in agricultural at all in the UK. I’m on the case and will blog about it as soon as I can.

Finally, Moles work very well when done correctly however it is necessary to have an existing piped scheme to prove an outlet, without such an outlet the moles can do more damage than good. Drainage can be designed to accommodate regular moling which can reduce cost considerable. The frequency of moling depends upon the soil if your soil is a clay moles can last for many years, I have even heard of moles last thirty years! Often a scheme incorporating mole ploughing would be more attractive for a tenant, looking for a quicker return on the investment.

Few a long reply but if you have any more questions just fire away...

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re: Technology is a wonderful thing.

TeslaCoils — Wed, 01 Aug 2012 21:10:14 GMT

I have been thinking about drains today, as we were combining a field of barley on clay soil that has no / few drains! If the Dutch field is at say 5m below sea level it surely relies on pumped drainage. So if the depth of the ditches is say 2m (7m below sea level) and the soil is otherwise free draining level sand, does a) the drainage have to be laid with a fall accross the field, and b) if the ditches are pumped, surly the water would flow to the ditches through the sand anyway?

Anyhow, my under-drained field. Have you any paperwork on the economics of field drains? If you said drains were roughly £1k per acre, that sounds a lot in terms of % of land price. Yet it is only 2.5t of OSR. Or 5t of wheat. I was really sitting in the field, wondering if getting the mole plough out would be a good idea. If you have an undrained field, is moling a) worthwhile (no real cost as I have the kit - just time and diesel) and b) how do you know which way to do it? But then if you were instaling drains on land suitable for moling, is it better value to a) less drains and mole every x number of years or b) more drains and hence higher up front cost but less need to mole?

Its a big post, but as a tennant, the capital outlay on draining say 200ac is a big issue. Drainage subsidies arent comming back and having to write them off over 40 years means slightly more thinking that buying a tractor etc.

Tim.

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re: Getting ready for the visit

Roburt — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 14:09:55 GMT

Thanks for the advice Matthew! Time find out those FW mugs and hope that my wife's cake is a good enough bribe....

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re: Getting ready for the visit

matthew naylor — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 06:10:21 GMT

Good luck with the judges.

I helped to judge a category last year and one of the entrants served me a coffee in a Farmers Guardian mug. Don't do that and you should be fine.

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re: Nuffield News

TeslaCoils — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:51:29 GMT

North Korea would be mega.

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re: Cash Flow

Will.Wilson — Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:34:11 GMT

I was once told that if I only remember one thing about business it's this.

Turn - over is vanity, Profit is sanity, cash is king.

Congratulations on the scholarship it is something I am sure I hope to apply for in the future.

Will

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re: Nuffield News

Roburt — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:53:57 GMT

It's very exciting TeslaCoils! At the moment I have got any firm plans about where to visit, it’s entirely up to me to sort out a travel plan, so I guess I had better get on with it!

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re: Nuffield News

TeslaCoils — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:26:13 GMT

Oooh very exciting. Are you going to go to some more exotic locations which have monsoon rains for their soil to deal with?

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re: Return visit

Roburt — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:01:32 GMT

If new drains were installed in roughly the same place as the existing drains, it is likely the levels would be correct (it sounds like the old drains are still working to some extent) and that the drains would improve the field’s drainage. However it might be wiser to lay the new drains in between the existing ones, thus minimising the distance between each lateral. It is very likely that you can tap into the existing mains and save a lot of money and hassle.

It is interesting to hear how effective your efforts have been to trace the location of the existing scheme. If the original completion plan is lost it can be tricky to work out where old drains are, the only way to find them is to look for variations in crop growth or soil colour. Sometimes it is obvious but on other occasion it is very difficult and can be confused by other buried services such as water pipes.

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re: Return visit

TeslaCoils — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 20:30:42 GMT

I mapped two old systems with the barley method this year - easy to do with a fert spreading tractor with GPS. A field of oats showed up an ancient drain that was not on a more recent drainge map. I presume that if you laser surveyed a field, it would tell you to lay new drains in roughly the same place as old ones would be?

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re: Return visit

Roburt — Thu, 08 Sep 2011 10:49:48 GMT

Your best bet is to try to find out who installed the drains and see if they have any records. As you probably know, we store an as built drawing for every job we complete going back to the fifties, we have thousand of them. I’m afraid the government did not keep records showing the location of drains, so there no help, I like your idea regarding barley, it would probably be very effective!

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re: Return visit

TeslaCoils — Tue, 06 Sep 2011 22:44:04 GMT

Just out of interest, if land clearly has drains, but no map, how would you find the locations of the drains?

Presuming the went in when drains were funded by grants, would HM Govt agency have copies? Or would it be best to try and track the installer down and see if they have copies like the above? Or just plant some barley and map them on the GPS!

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re: Funny old tiles

Roburt — Fri, 01 Jul 2011 12:53:56 GMT

We come across them all the time!

I'm just about to write a post about our comments, hopefully I will answer your question.

As an aside, I alway read your blog, it interests me to hear how things were dont in the past, as you might have guest from my posts on the old drains, I like history!

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re: Funny old tiles

Owd Fred — Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:21:47 GMT

Do you come across horse shoe tiles in your part of the country, we have some that must have been dug in by hand up to eight feet deep.

You would not lay many of those in a day.

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re: more old photos

avalon — Thu, 26 May 2011 21:52:35 GMT

Nice pics, I somehow don't think they were taken with a smart phone.

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re: more old photos

avalon — Thu, 26 May 2011 21:51:37 GMT

Nice pics, I somehow don't think they were taken with a smart phone.

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re: Land Drainage and Sustainability

motley — Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:47:10 GMT

I see you take a view on sustainability that is nothing to do with the reality of sustainability.

The neo-conseravtive view on economics you are promulgating of sharing resources has been found out, the banks want everything. The rich are getting richer.

Life is like Keynes said if it can't carry on it will stop. You are like the population on Easter Island and will cut down the last tree. While you are making a profit so others lose.

Sustainability is an endeavour to share the cake more favorably. Why do you want to see old folk on £90 per week pension and the rising generation unemployed because this is the economics of your madhouse.

Happy Easter.

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re: Exams and Vandalism

Higlet — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:35:41 GMT

COSHH- Control of substances hazardous to health, I had to do this test at my work Mole Valley Farmers to comply with health and safety and all that!

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re: Trenching Machines - Part Two

Roburt — Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:57:47 GMT

I should have mentioned that!

The maximum diametre pipe a trenchless machine can lay is 125mm (5"). The general rule of thumb is that 10 arces of laterals will require a 100mm pipe. On some large jobs will be install the larger diametre pipes open trench and the laterals trenchless.

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