I am 15 years old and just starting with sheep and I have decided to buy some Charollais sheep. I know that the rams produce strong lambs when cross bred with other breeds of ewes but do they produce strong, fast growing lambs when pure bred.

Hi Tom,

Charolais sheep are excellent growers whether pure or crossbred. However the pure ones, as with any pure breed, are far more delicate than crosses. You will need to lamb indoors for certain and even then you'll need to keep a heat lamp handy for the weaker lambs as they're sometimes born with virtually no wool. They will also get virtually every disease going in my experience. I'm really not trying to put you off, just giving you a 'heads up' before you start.

We have had a small flock of Charollais sheep since the 80's and you won't find a better terminal sire anywhere. We don't sell tups though, we just breed enough for our own use. Selling tups is a thankless task. Everyone wants to buy your best tup for as little money as possible.

If you aren't planning to sell breeding stock then perhaps it might be best to start off with some crossbreds first, then progress to purebred when you have had more experience.

Best of luck !

Thanks for the advise. If I was going to start off with cross breeding which breed of ewe should I cross them with?

Something with a bit of wool like a Welsh mountain or a Welsh mule perhaps. Avoid anything too Texely as you'll have lambing probs. Don't buy a ram with too pink a face as the lambs will be more delicate when born. However, the pink face types produce the best lambs if you can keep them alive.

I have been told that north country mules break easily. I have 20 acres in a valley and my ground is very wet. Are welsh mules hardier then normal north country mules? Also I don't have many barns so is there many breeds I could cross with a Charollais that could lamb outside?

Sounds like Welsh Mountains would suit you best. They aren't too heavy and will produce hardier lambs than any mules. What part of the country do you live Tom ?

I live in South Devon. Well welsh mountains sound the real deal. Could they lamb outside?

Yes no problem.

I agree with WnW, the pure bred sheep is difficult, I had a small flock of Suffolks alongside a large flock of crossbreds and the Suffolks were aweful to lamb compared with the others, they tended to be poor mums and the lambs tended to be thick and not suck properly and similar.  When the rams had grown up they were fine and their offspring excellent. Try a few crossbreds first, a friend of mine had his leg lifted at a sale and had a poor charollais ram palmed off to him, he is also quite young, there are unscrupulous types out there looking to make a quick buck out of breeding stock.

 

Ok well I will look into welsh mountains. If I was to buy them is there any big sales I should look out for?

Ok well thank you very much for the advise

Apart from drowning in this drought.

Yes lots of sales in the autumn, places like Penderyn, Tregaron, Dolgellau and Ruthin and almost anywhere else in between. The south wales types tend to be bigger than the hardier north wales ones.

Might be worth you taking a look at these http://www.easycaresheep.com/ though welsh mountain probably would suit you best.

Hi Tom,  as your land is in a valley you are probably more concerned with the wet that with exposure.  Have you thought about   X Dorset  with a dose of footvax?  We have a wet farm and they do well here.  They are also more docile than the welshies in my experience, you don't want anything straight off a mountain as they can be a bit twitchy.  You should also be able to source them locally as I have seen plenty down your way.  Good luck whatever you choose. 

Well dorset's were on my list to look at, but can they lamb outside if put to a Charollais ram? The farmer up the road has dorset's but he doesn't farm in the valley.

Ok well thanks I will have a good look at them and speak to my parents about them.

BrownCow:

Have you thought about   X Dorset  with a dose of footvax? 

That's like saying buy a Skoda but employ a mechanic !

No but seriously though, there's nothing wrong with Dorset crosses but like browncow was hinting their feet aren't the best, especially on wet ground. They will lamb outdoors I expect but you will have to be careful to keep the tups away from the ewes unless you want to be lambing all year.

Well that's fine I have land on both sides of the valley with a river and lots of paddocks. But I guess welsh mountains have good feet then? But browncow said they can be wild, are they?

Welsh ewes tend to have very good feet. Yes they can be wild but soon calm down if handled quietly. You won't get them in without a dog, where as you could bring in more docile ewes like dorsets or mules with a bucket and some nuts.

Yh I mean that my problem I have no dog. So dorset's are probably a better idea then. Will Dorset cross Charollais produce good lambs?

TomO'Brien1:

Will Dorset cross Charollais produce good lambs?

Yes, any ewes crossed with a charollais ram will produce good lambs.

 Hi WnW  I am interested in your comments about the Charolais breed, there is a group who have brought a nucleus flock to NZ and are promoting them as a terminal sire. They sound very good from the blerb, but I am wondering how they would handle lambing outside in our conditions,we use a Poll Dorset as a terminal sire, but would not consider anything with Poll Dorset in it for breeding because of there feet.

 As we lamb early, would compare with January in UK,  would the Charolais have the same effect as the Dorset for bringing the ewes on heat, would the lambs grow faster than the Dorset, and to the same weights, eg not going to fat.

We are always looking for new breeds, but have got on very well with the Dorset, and you need to look outside the square.

alidownunder:

but I am wondering how they would handle lambing outside in our conditions,

Not very well I'm afraid, unless the ewes were very woolly and hardy. Chx lambs are very quick to get up and suckle but don't have much wool and do suffer from hypothermia very easily

.

alidownunder:

would the Charolais have the same effect as the Dorset for bringing the ewes on heat, would the lambs grow faster than the Dorset,

No thet won't bring the ewes to season earlier, but the lambs will grow faster and possibly bigger than a dorset and not get too fat. Conformation would be far superior.

Basically, if you can keep them alive for the first week then they're unbeatable IMHO. I would have to concede though that they're best suited to being lambed indoors in most cases.

alidownunder:

As we lamb early, would compare with January in UK,

You must be very far south then.  Definately wouldn't want to lamb anything outside here in January as there is nothing for them to eat if they could wade through the mud.  Not that different today either.

alidownunder:

would the Charolais have the same effect as the Dorset for bringing the ewes on heat

We used a Dorset teaser to bring the ewes to oestrus early.  Worked a treat.

BrownCow:

We used a Dorset teaser to bring the ewes to oestrus early.  Worked a treat.

We used to do that too when we lambed early. Forgot to mention it. They were often lame though.