Just received Ian Potter's weekly bulletin and saw this....

Urgent call for all dairy farmers and industry associates

This Sunday evening on BBC1 at 19:30 hours, Countryfile features an investigation by John Craven of Countryfile, which is controversially billed on the BBC website as an “investigation as to why our dairy industry has one of the worst animal welfare records in Europe and what’s being done to change that.  It is the duty of everyone who receives this weekly bulletin to watch this programme and carefully study John Craven’s evidence.  If the evidence does not support Craven’s allegation we suggest you all call the BBC on 03700100222, select Option 2 to comment or Option 3 to complain.  If enough feel strongly about the programme it will trigger an investigation.  It’s your industry and your duty to watch this programme.  Do not sit on the side lines and leave the assessment to others outside of the industry. 

YOUR INDUSTRY NEEDS YOU!!!!

...I'll be watching with interest

I put a comment in on the milk price thread a couple of days ago about this, as I thought that was where the dairy boys looked, but it seemed to miss the point. I expect the moaning will start after the event. I suggested that we used the Carwyn James school of negotiation, but there is not much time now. perhaps Lumley can help.

What did everyone think then? It wasn't as bad as I feared it would be, but I didn't really think enough was made about problems meeting quota or profitability. Wasn't too impressed by the sinister music over footage of intesive production either, but I guess it could help boost organic sales...

 I agree in the fact it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but it would have been better at the pros and cons of both systems rather than pointing out problems you can get with one with out looking at problems you can get with the other. Also it must be pointed out that what works for one person may not work for someone else as the saying goes one boot does not fit all. The fact is if they cows were not happy and looked after then they're not going to make a profit in the first place and when you see the animals more often than other people you wouldn't want to see them suffer in the first place anyway.

Not sure if it was just be but I didn notice that he hinted at the end that he put blame on the supermarkets milking everyone and people wanting thing cheaper than they cost to produce.

milk cheaper than water

Sorry motley, hadn't seen you'd already posted about this! Watched the programme and agree with others that it wasn't as bad as feared, although the fact it raised the issue at peak viewing time on a Sunday evening wasn't necessarily the best move by BBC - shame they didn't show what goes on in some other countries where milk production can take place on an even grander scale....!

I though the programme was a terrible advert for an industry with very high levels of welfare, it was shown in a prime time sunday night slot with many non-farming viewers who tuned in to see Holsteins being kept indoors with no mention that they go outside in the summer, the RSPCA saying that if we are not careful the Holstein breed are going to die out through intensive farming, and also that Friesians are the only cows which enjoy happy lives free to roam outdoors. It was a very unrealistic snapshot into production systems and could drive consumers away from purchasing conventional towards organic products.

glasshouse:

milk cheaper than water

I don't think the piece will be damaging in the long run but I did find it quite perplexing. I mean how many people are zero grazing? Yet it have the impression that this was the reality of 21st century milk production.

However, if consumers do start asking questions about welfare in dairying I do hope the industry doesn't get too defensive and takes the time to listen.  

I think it was bad for farming as a lot of people will assume that zero grazing is the norm and that welfare problems are widespread.

I wasn't sure, frankly, what the point of the segment was - it didn't seem to have a specific point... it seemed to wander a bit, touching on different systems, welfare, different breeds, organics, supermarkets...

Tim.Relf:

I wasn't sure, frankly, what the point of the segment was

Modern TV programme making of the Countryfile kind, is mainly about grabbing attention for a few moments, making a point, and moving on. It does not  set out to educate but merely to make a single point. In so doing it does not encourage a viewer to concentrate and explore, but to merely note and accept.

I think the one main point the 'ordinary' viewer will get from this programme is that milk mainly comes from cows kept in big sheds but that some also comes from cows who eat grass. Secondary memories retained by the viewer will be that, The RSPCA cares about cows and that demand for cheap milk is connected in some way with cows in sheds.

Result for:

1. Farming,                Negative side slightly greater than the good side
2. Presenters.            Had a good time
3. RSPCA.                Caring and active image
4. Supermarkets.       Neutral but on the slightly doubtful side
5. Public.                   Minimal influence on situation
6. Holsteins.             Sympathy vote
7. British Friesans.    Boost to image

Today is Monday. The public and the TV has moved on.

Was a standard countryfile view on agriculture, always backing the RSPCA and the otherside.

 What i can't understand is how the BBC can give a very good perspective of farming in mud, sweat & tractors on bbc4, but give a negative perspective in countryfile!

I have two points.  One, journalists are under constant pressure to write something.  As life is not black and white, one interpretation can be presented at one time, and another interpretation at another.  In a few months time the BBC will be doing a piece on how the UK leads the way in animal welfare, even though the industry might not have changed a bit.  Two, I don't like factory farming.  I don't like cows being milked three times a day.  I don't like the idea of cows never going outside.  But I also don't like the RSPCA.  And I don't like the RSPCA sticking its nose into my business.  The holier-than-thou attitude of the RSPCA is sickening.

WELL SAID R FISHER RSPCA WOULD LOVE TO SEE END OF COWS AND HAVE 100S OF T B BADGERS EVERY WHERE.                                   I DO THINK THE PRICE OF MILK WAS NOT STATED NOW BELOW COST OF PRODUCTION AGAIN. WE NEED MONEY FOR INVESTMENT NOT JUST FOR PRODUCTION

The cows in the big shed looked happy to me not that i am a fan of holstens keep suck cows my self thay get some foot problems and thay are milked more than 3 times a day.  I  thought my water bill had gone up but still not as much as milk price is it?

The RSPCA's campaign seems to have stepped up a gear. Here's what it says on its website:

We are urging retailers, farmers and consumers to all take responsibility in tackling the serious welfare concerns facing the dairy cow.

Of the two million dairy cows in the UK, the vast majority are of the Holstein breed, many of whom live with a number of serious health problems. Similarly, these cattle are possibly more inbred than many of the pedigree dog breeds.

Two of the indicators of increasing levels of inbreeding, within the national herd, are the inability to reproduce and an increasing susceptibility to disease.

They are also dogged with problems associated with lameness, mastitis (a painful inflammation of the udder), and other conditions such as bovine viral diarrhoea (BVD) and leptospirosis (a bacterial disease), which are becoming increasingly widespread.

We wouldn't treat our pets this way, so why cows?
And people may be shocked to learn that it is perfectly legal to treat a lame cow, which may involve cutting into live tissue, without the use of any pain relief.

The increasing demand for ever higher milk yields, at ever lower prices, has lead to an intensified system. A system that to many would seem completely inconsistent with the image of dairy cows happily chewing cud in the field.

These days many of our dairy cows are kept indoors for their entire lives in intensive systems, never once seeing a field, let alone able to graze.

Welfare concerns highlighted in BBC's Countryfile
John Avizienius, deputy head of farm animal science at the RSPCA, is a former herdsman.

He appeared on the BBC's rural affairs show, Countryfile, on Sunday, 10 May shedding light on these problems, alongside an eminent Cambridge professor and members of the dairy cow industry.

John said: "This is a very real problem, and one that must be tackled by everyone, from farmers and retailers to us the consumer.

"If we don't take action now we could end up milking the dairy cow to death."

If you missed Countryfile, you can still catch it on BBC iPlayer until Sunday, 17 May.

[This link opens in a new window.]

We must all work together to tackle these issues
At the moment, although some farmers have very good levels of welfare, their milk is sold for the same price as everyone else's in the supermarket.

While any work to improve welfare by the farmers and supermarkets is to be applauded, we need to work together to ensure a greater number of cows (and farmers) will benefit.

Consumer power is key
Greater consumer awareness of the issues is key. The more shoppers demand better welfare for dairy cows, and are prepared to spend a few pence more to award farmers who do invest in better standards, the quicker we will see these desperately needed changes taking place.

In the meantime, if you are concerned about the welfare of the animal that produced your milk, we would urge you to ask at your supermarkets where the milk has come from, and whether they have good standards of welfare.

the rspca has abviously realised how hypocritical its message of 'dont kill the badger, even though its dying a horrible death from an incurable disease' is massively hypocritical and has launched its next attack on dairy cows.

the way i see it is that the famer is obviously going to look after his cows to the best of his ability as they are his livelihood. yes there are lameness problems, but, as the saying goes 'where theres livestock theres deadstock'. animals are not machines and can go wrong, but most farmers do everything they can to prevent/sort problems out.

for a program that is meant to be about the countryside, i felt that the wrong point was made, yes there are problems but on the whole the standards of the British livestock/dairy industry are amongst the highest in the world.if i was a townie who has never seen a cow before i would now be feeling 'poor cow, they are being milked to death'....

I accept that there are issues in the dairy industry that need addressing. But I was surprised to see the line comparing the inbreeding in cattle to that of dogs. I fear that could be very damaging to the industry. The dog breeding issue caused Pedigree to drop sponsorship of Crufts and the BBC refused to screen the event. It left the dog breeding world with a nasty stain.

What wasn't mentioned was that Holsteins are bred to be barn reared, and that excessive walking is actually bad for their feet, and is actuially worse for their welfare. They all looked a) to have good condition scores and b) to be happy in the footage shown.

 On a more positive note, and one that is linked to this, when not at vet school I work full time on a 120 fresian/holstein milking herd (with admitedly a couple of brown swiss and a jersey X thrown into the mix) doing general herd work and tractor work, having worked on farms my whole life. We are straw bedded in winter 10/20 parlour-the usual basically. Anyway, a non farming friend of mine asked if she could have a look (bearing in mind she was a vegan till recently). So I got permission off my boss and took her round, at the end of the tour she was convinced that the milk we produce would be organic, expensive stuff, and was shocked when I a) told her we were just bog standard liquid contract, and b) how little we got for the stuff. Interestingly, when explaining modern dairy farming even to colleagues at university (who are inevitebly going into small/equine work), it is amazing the ignorance of the general public who seem to think cheap milk comes from intensive factory farmed cows kept in crates all the time. Dairy farming in the UK is something we should be proud of, and yet there just isn't enough coverage.

 There are issues in the dairy farming industry, it's true, but I have never worked wirth anyone in british dairying who didn't view optimising welfare as a primary concern. I honestly believe if the general public were actual shown the hard slog that the average dairy farmer puts in to improve welfare for his cattle, and the conditions in which they're kept, they'd be prepared to pay more

The RSPCA and BBC are making mountains out of mole hills in order to fuel the current food welfare debate, which should in fact be benefitting the British farmer.

Rant over.

We wouldn't treat our pets this way, so why cows?

Thats an interesting quote from the RSPCA considering the arguments over inbreeding in pet dogs.

 I think its also interesting that the RSPCA are making lots of noise over inbreeding in cattle when it took a BBC investigation and several months of public debate before they pulled out of crufts! On the RSPCA website the current front page is about their 'campaign' on dairy cow welfare yet all i found on pedigree dogs was advice to buy a dog that 'looks healthy'

 I dont think there is any doubht that there is a level of inbreeding in the national holstein herd due the the heavy use of AI and embryo transfer but im sure if the RSPCA are really serious about this then they could have worked with farmers instead of trying to grab headlines with the public

I wouldn't treat a cow the way the majority of the public treat their dogs.

 disobedient and overindulghed, overweight, under exercised and from incredibly poor genetic stock.

It's fairly simple:

The RSPCA know that if they campaign against pedigree dogs too loudly, they will lose support from their members, so it is far easier to target an outside group for them to unite against as how many dairy farmers will be members of the RSPCA compared to dog owners?

Isabel Davies:

I accept that there are issues in the dairy industry that need addressing. But I was surprised to see the line comparing the inbreeding in cattle to that of dogs. I fear that could be very damaging to the industry. The dog breeding issue caused Pedigree to drop sponsorship of Crufts and the BBC refused to screen the event. It left the dog breeding world with a nasty stain.

It all comes down to money RSPCA are a charity so the more big stories/headlines and air time they can get the more money they rake in even if its wrong. I have seen no end of programs lately where they have ruined people's lives by dragging their name through mud in the press before any trial has taken place then the trial comes and idependant vets testify and its thrown out but the people involved have been ruined both financially and emmotionally  by it with not even a sorry from them.

sjk:

It all comes down to money RSPCA are a charity so the more big stories/headlines and air time they can get the more money they rake in

You are correct in saying that the RSPCA has charitable status. This allows it to collect public donations and gives them tax benefits and council tax benefits. You are also right to be sceptical about the objectives of the RSPCAs heirarchy, although not necessarily of most of its volunteers.

The organisation used to have, and to a small extent still does have, a role in the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, however its major objectives now appear to be the Promotion of Animal Rights and the maximisation of income to support and promote its public image.

I wonder at what point its 'Royal' approval status will come into question?

I watched this item a couple of times to help reflection. I thought Mr Craven's closing words were well constructed but did fall short of addressing the financial pressure down through the  supply chain of dairy products which is exerted by the supermarket thugs at the top. If the RSPCA knows of farmers who are being cruel it already has powers to take action. If inbreeding is deemed cruelty how is the scale of inbreeding to be assessed and by what criteria will it be deemed cruelty. Presumably the "expert" fron Cambridge will be breaking new ground here. Useless cows and their progeny are no good to any farmer in any case.

I've always wondered how the RSPCA squares this farming husbandry with that of the keeping of cats, no-working dogs (tails undocked), parrots (a cruel trade), mice, hamsters, reptiles, tortoises etc by un-trained, unqualified members of the public. In particular there is the message of "get a dog, it will help you make friends" - how sad is that. Of course the veterinary profession and pet supply industry are raking in billions in this "animal lovers'" market so it is presumably a bit of a no-no as far as squaring the whole animal scene is concerned. A slight imbalance in values methinks.

And don't dare anyone mention "rescue dogs"!

It seemed to me that the RSPCA is putting up a smoke screen and diverting the issues away from TB. Europe have smaller herds which means figures will be misleading. With the supermarkets keeping the milk price down, dairy farmers are having to run more cows, with less labour. The holstien isn't designed for grazing, and to be efficient you have to breed the right cow for the system you are running.

How can the RSPCA say they are concerned about the welfare of cows in this country, when they are accepting thousands and thousands of cows to slaughter regarding TB, very welfare friendly.