Cookies & Privacy
in

Food security for a growing population

Last post Thu, May 31 2012 13:50 by Peter Wells. 22 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (23 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Wed, May 23 2012 8:37

    Food security for a growing population

    I just picked up on the phrase from the GM wheat debate "to achieve food security for a growing global population". This seems to be an excuse for all sorts of activities. To some it may appear a little like creating more high-environmental-cost nuclear power stations to reduce carbon emmissions elsewhere. We also need more energy because the global population needs "energy security". Can I ask the question, or is it too politically-incorrect, why in H**L are we not reading and hearing more about how we are going to halt and reverse the increase in the most unsustainable part of all of this, human population growth. We will never achieve either food or energy security for a global population until we address this issue. It may not, of course require expensive science, research etc. to address this particular issue as we might already have known technologies to do so, although some of these might also not be totally non-polluting to our environment. Sometimes we just need to keep it simple.
  • Wed, May 23 2012 10:06 In reply to

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    Stuart,

            Sometimes you just need to keep it simple.

     

    That little Phrase sums up so much of what is wrong in our world today. I will not give to Charities giving Money to the Sarving in Africa .I ask them if the Money is to buy Black Plasic or the Annual Birth pill , one is for controlling the problem of numbers the other is to enable Moisture to be retained in soil so that Plants can grow, simple. Have'nt had to give any money yet !

  • Wed, May 23 2012 11:28 In reply to

    • motley
    • Top 150 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Mar 30 2009
    • Suffolk

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    Stuart Meikle:
    why in H**L are we not reading and hearing more about how we are going to halt and reverse the increase in the most unsustainable part of all of this, human population growth.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Malthus tried and failed.

    The problem is where are you in 'Logan's run' ?

    I have a problem with the call to arms over this debate on too many people, this often the default setting of environmentalists use  that it is down to the fact there are too many people.

    Well I love people, and love life and i ain't intending to give up my cards at present, and don't see why anyone else should either.

    All biological systems have built in feedback loops, which those who argue that Lovelock got it wrong, will question. The biological feedback is disease, war and failure to manage rresources in the human species. This is why there is so much hot air over these common rights. There are polluted oceans, shortages of water and many other tell tell signs around of ecological decay. Just watch when the people are told of a SARS outbreak what happens, people are very paniced at present. Why, because there is stress in the system and little resiliance. Take the petrol driver's strike panic as another example, Norther Rock another one how many more examples do you need. Greece, Syria, Egypt, Libyia, Tunisia ............

    Human population will be subject to the selective pressure that all species have. The trouble is most people are more interested in protecting their rights to property and not seeing the ecological impacts of human activity around them.

    Cassandra was never heard.

     

    Farming is for us, all.
  • Wed, May 23 2012 23:29 In reply to

    • old mcdonald
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Oct 27 2008
    • Near Castelo Branco, Portugal

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    Stuart, On the long-running Charlie Flindt thread on Climate Change my boy gave a link to www.optimumpopulation.org over which Sir David Attenbrough presides. Some people are trying to do something about it. Are you and everyone else who posts here? You might not like the question, but the world truly is seriously overpopulated. After one I went for the chop. I always practice what I preach. How many of you lot stopped at one child, or even none? If I remember correctly, Motley decided on none.

    www.oldmcdonaldsolives.com
  • Thu, May 24 2012 5:51 In reply to

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    Old McD, but surely it is about who has what, where and in what circumstances. Somehow I suspect that there is plenty of opportuntiy here for being very politically incorrect (something which in itself is possibly responsible for a lot of issues going unaddressed!).

    To answer your question, two. But then my wife is an only child and on my side of eight grandchildren, four may stay at zero so overall we are not carrying too much responsibility.

    As to stopping at one, I watched Jeremy Clarkson's film on VC winners the other day. The point they made was that VC winners tended to come from larger families where the child had had to take responsibility for siblings early, the point being that they developed a strong sense of responsibility for those around them at a very early age. One can suppose that an only child does not. Do only children then grow up less socially-focused? Do they grow up more self-focused and consume a greater proportion of available resources than someone who has grown up in a 'sharing' environment? Taking this hypothesis you should have either zero or two children and not one. I guess to have been totally correct we should have had one of each but the wife insisted on boys.

  • Thu, May 24 2012 7:36 In reply to

    • henarar
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Thu, Feb 21 2008
    • zumerzet

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    Stuart Meikle:
    correct we should have had one of each but the wife insisted on boys

    That was down to you

  • Thu, May 24 2012 9:03 In reply to

    • townie
    • Top 150 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • West Wales

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    Stuart Meikle:
    Do only children then grow up less socially-focused? Do they grow up more self-focused and consume a greater proportion of available resources than someone who has grown up in a 'sharing' environment?

    Interesting question.  Having worked in the far east for a few years, I have a number of Chinese acquaintances, both from Hong Kong and the mainland.  Culturally quite different places anyway, but there is an interesting contrast drawn between the typically larger families from the unfettered former colony (or whatever it was) and the one-child policy of the mainland.  Mainland kids, even from moe modest backgrounds, quite often tend to be showered with everything their parents can afford and treated like little princes and princesses.  I think this has helped to foster the hunger for the consumer society and a more "me" centered culture which is quite striking when you look at their great rival, India, where the traditional large familiy with its complex web of interrelationships still holds sway.

     

  • Thu, May 24 2012 9:41 In reply to

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    old mcdonald:
    the world truly is seriously overpopulated. After one I went for the chop. I always practice what I preach. How many of you lot stopped at one child, or even none? If I remember correctly, Motley decided on none.
     

    Cymdeithas yr Iaeth (The Welsh language society) are pleading for Welsh speaking families to have as many children as they possibly can in order to redress the balance between Welsh speaking children and incomers in the schools, in order hopefully, to save the language.

    I totally agree with this policy, and I too practice what I preach so we had four children.

    http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

  • Sat, May 26 2012 21:40 In reply to

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    They need to put a drug to lower sperm counts in all junk foods and drinks which may solve several problems in the long run.
  • Sat, May 26 2012 21:45 In reply to

    Re: Food security for a growing population

     That's a good idea, they could also combine the contraceptive pill with alcopops and fags. This would prevent most unwanted teenage pregnancies. Big Smile

    http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

  • Mon, May 28 2012 22:57 In reply to

    • old mcdonald
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Oct 27 2008
    • Near Castelo Branco, Portugal

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    ploughshare/wnw, What would have been your reaction if somebody had decided you should limit your family to none or one?
    www.oldmcdonaldsolives.com
  • Tue, May 29 2012 7:09 In reply to

    • henarar
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Thu, Feb 21 2008
    • zumerzet

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    How about getting rid of child tax credits and the like and perhaps a weeky payment off say £100 to anyone over lets say 40 that has no kids and are therefore not adding to the problem but helping itHmm

  • Tue, May 29 2012 8:03 In reply to

    Re: Food security for a growing population

     I quite liked the headage payment, I mean child benefit.Wink

    old mcdonald:
    ploughshare/wnw, What would have been your reaction if somebody had decided you should limit your family to none or one?

     Old mac, I was joking but in all seriousness there are far too many 16 yr old girls pushing prams about in poorer areas. They seem to get pregnant just because all their friends are and also the fact that they can get a flat and benefits to live on. Not an ideal way to start your adult life IMHO.

    http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

  • Tue, May 29 2012 8:14 In reply to

    • bogsworthy
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sun, Jul 17 2011
    • South west

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    Henarar

    Sounds like you are over 40 with no children!

    I too like w&w like the child tax credits at least that way Im getting a bit of my money back from the government

    I have more of an issue of self employed people claiming income tax credits 

    Manipulating the figures with the accountant to show little or no profit thats fair enough, but claiming money back because of this I think is wrong.

    Having your cake and eat it comes to mind!

  • Tue, May 29 2012 9:37 In reply to

    • henarar
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Thu, Feb 21 2008
    • zumerzet

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    You can take what you like from that post it was just an idea but like wnw said it may hit pram sales

    funny how one can justify a handout that you get and condem one you dont nothing personal in that I think we all do it

     

  • Tue, May 29 2012 20:19 In reply to

    • old mcdonald
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Oct 27 2008
    • Near Castelo Branco, Portugal

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    w'n'w, I like the term "headage payment". It is a great problem, but it was the same 100 years ago (anybody who has researched their family tree will find marriage was often a rush job, or even happened afterwards) although probably the blokes "did the right thing" in those days. I agree with your comments about pushing prams and am inclined to the view that the lesser intelligent breed more - and absolutely definitely without any doubt whatsoever I know you will not take that personally!! I am one of four myself. I do not know what the answer is to overpopulation, perhaps we all just need to produce more food.

    www.oldmcdonaldsolives.com
  • Tue, May 29 2012 20:52 In reply to

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    old mcdonald:
    I am one of four myself. I do not know what the answer is to overpopulation, perhaps we all just need to produce more food.
     

    Perhaps everyone else should have less children ? But I don't want anyone telling me how many to have. Stick out tongue

    We could very easily produce more food. I see no sense taking land out of production for environmental schemes when people are starving on the other side of the World. Having said this, the people who are starving could probably do a lot more for themselves given education and encouragement.

    http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

  • Tue, May 29 2012 21:31 In reply to

    • peesie
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 18 2011

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    The answer to overpopulation is famine.
  • Tue, May 29 2012 22:22 In reply to

    Re: Food security for a growing population

     Overpopulation is the answer to farming's problems though. More people means more demand for food and greater respect for those who can grow it.

    http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

  • Tue, May 29 2012 22:28 In reply to

    • old mcdonald
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Oct 27 2008
    • Near Castelo Branco, Portugal

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    peesie, Famine has been known since records of human population exist. It has not stopped population growth up to now. Guerssing a bit timewise, but about two months ago, I saw a documentary about famine in "an African country" where the couple had never, according to them, had enought to eat since they were both children. They had 6 kids of their own! They could not feed them but felt it was right to have lots of children and "somebody" should feed them.

    w'n'w, I would like to think you are right, but as is often the case, I hae ma doots.

    www.oldmcdonaldsolives.com
  • Tue, May 29 2012 22:56 In reply to

    • peesie
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 18 2011

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    old mcdonald:

    peesie, Famine has been known since records of human population exist. It has not stopped population growth up to now. Guerssing a bit timewise, but about two months ago, I saw a documentary about famine in "an African country" where the couple had never, according to them, had enought to eat since they were both children. They had 6 kids of their own! They could not feed them but felt it was right to have lots of children and "somebody" should feed them.

    w'n'w, I would like to think you are right, but as is often the case, I hae ma doots.

    Over population and population growth arent the same thing.If there had never been famine,all the people who died through famine would have bred even more people until famine thinned them out.The worlds population only continues to grow because we have the where withall to feed them.There will come a point when we dont.Then famine will cap population growth.
  • Wed, May 30 2012 19:49 In reply to

    • old mcdonald
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Oct 27 2008
    • Near Castelo Branco, Portugal

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    peesie, Good points and I agree with you if there is famine on a worldwide scale. It probably will happen.

    www.oldmcdonaldsolives.com
  • Thu, May 31 2012 13:50 In reply to

    • Peter Wells
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Gloucestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: Food security for a growing population

    old mcdonald:
    Famine has been known since records of human population exist.

    As has poverty.

    To an extent both are a relative measure, in that very few people die of famine but millions do not attain a diet that allows a fullsome life. And whilst people can be classified as 'poor' it is always relative to someone else.

    An absolute measure is no food or water, ergo death in 8 to 21 days or, in the case of poverty having control over nothing, ergo having no choices.

    All the writers on this forum have food, water and are able to make choices and, mercifully, we are all grateful for that. I also know that many give something out of their surplus (or necessities) to the benefit of those less fortunate.

    Because both these terms are largely relative in meaning famine/starvation and poverty will exist until the sun goes out.

    We are not saying nothing can, or should be, done to alleviate starvation or poverty, but that what is needed is a level of support up to the point where people have choices to make.

    For example I wholly support those farmers who donate cows and teach husbandry etc and do not support those charities that dump vast quantities of commodities on local populations thus destroying markets for local growers.

    Despite knowing that none of us will live for ever. Security of anything including food, is dependent on the number of options we have and the choices we make,  and, to push the point a little, that is why the notion of 'free trade which increases options, is better than protectionism which limits them.

      

     

Page 1 of 1 (23 items)
© RBI 2001-2010
Powered by Community Server (Commercial Edition), by Telligent Systems