I see that a convoy is moving up from Kent to bring the M25 and London to a halt. And another is moving along the M4. At the moment everyone is saying this is hauliers  - but are there any farmers taking part this time?

I've only seen hauliers so far on the news, it seems like they certainly made an impact though. 

I've just been speaking to one dairy farmer who says he won't be in business in 18 month's time unless something changes with the fuel prices pretty quickly. Is anyone else finding things as tough?

The Treasury, who are lets face it not keen on farming (look at Treasury vision for CAP, Darling's blundering on CAP) would like nothing more than to take away red diesel. If farmers get involved in this we'll lose what little political support we have and Red Diesel will be well and truly in the sights of HMT. Much better to let the hauliers lead the charge on this and watch from the sidelines obviously wishing them every success.

What's Handley's motivation? A desire to do the best for agriculture or more self publicity and an attempt to save the dying FFA?

Thing is, it's ok for the eco-facists to go on about environment and stuff, but what about the disabled? Many disabled people (in town and rural) HAVE to use a car. I wonder if any of these people have tried taking a child on the autistic spectrum on a bus? (especially with a wheelchair in tow)

I also wish people wouldn't go on about..well you can afford the fuel...you get a free car. Like hell. The car is paid for from our DLA (£180 a month) which leaves none of the motability component for fuel. Oh and hospital appointments in Barnstaple and Bristol...ugh.

 As dear hubby said, he would take part in the MPV, except we can't afford the fuel to take part with.

You must forgive my ignorance as I am not in farming...only on a peripheral basis, but......What is the job of your National Farmers' Union. ?

While I read the Euro news and get a feeling that the French farmers seem more active in demanding / supporting their rights...I also get the feeling that the Fr Govnt is also supporting their farmers.   

 What is going wrong here in the UK ?     Food is pricey enough for us in the street.

TS

tom smith:

You must forgive my ignorance as I am not in farming...only on a peripheral basis, but......What is the job of your National Farmers' Union. ?

Not every farmer will be part of the NFU, some won't touch it with a bargepole.

If farmers decided to do an all out blockeade here, all that would happen would be more city people making their point of farmers are just whingers and should work for nothing. (many of them do work for nothing)

The NFU just don't want to upset the status quo and I ain't talking Francis Rossi!

''''If farmers decided to do an all out blockeade here, all that would happen would be more city people making their point of farmers are just whingers and should work for nothing. (many of them do work for nothing)''''

Yes...point is made.   However there seem to be an increasing no. of farm premises ( in some areas) where buildings erected in a grant scheme of 'X' years ago now looking very tatty.  A sign, I suggest, of cash priorities elsewhere, like  salary.     Farming is a fundamental Human need and if the posts in the BIOFUEL forum are anything to go by we'll see more global population and less food/capita with maybe much land use in another sphere. 

If the Gen public don't get this then the whinging tag lives.  Once true facts are clearly in public view you're in with a chance.  But I never see the relative facts in the  daily press / TV

So point again is..... 'who  is the UK farmers' champion' ?

With the Press reporting daily that us in the farming game have never had it so good, supporting their claims with the rocketing food prices i dont think the geneal public would look on us with great favour, we are already looked upon as money grabbing whinging gits so joining mass protests, blockades or whatever on the frontlines as it were playing a prominent role and bringing the country to a standstill i think could back fire on the farming brigade and put us in line for contention as public enemy number 1 behind a certain Mr Brown, behind the scenes might be a better tact, but protest we must, if you pardon my contradiction... 

tom smith:

  However there seem to be an increasing no. of farm premises ( in some areas) where buildings erected in a grant scheme of 'X' years ago now looking very tatty.  A sign, I suggest, of cash priorities elsewhere, like  salary.   

Planning permission problems when doing buildings even current building that may need changing slightly. Incomers to the area holding up planning permission (costs money). Insurance, wages for farm staff, tax, fuel, time taken for endless paperwork which could be spent actually farming.

 As for salary, well living in an area surrounded by farms, I don't know of any farmer who has a salary of more than £15,000 p.a. The landowners, well they are the ones raking in the money from farm rents etc not the bloke doing the work.

Most owner-farmers tend to be land rich but cash poor. Hubby's ex boss has nearly £1,000,000 in land value, less now he has had to sell a lot of the land off, yet as for cash in the bank, well he is living off overdraft. Foot and Mouth did that to him, even though his farm wasn't hit by it, the movement restrictions left him with pigs he couldn't sell and no compensation. He can't get staff because no one wants to work in farming so he has one old boy and him. (Hubby had to leave for health reasons)

Last years outbreak of F&M nearly finished him. He is trying to get PP to rebuild a longhouse that is of historical significance, but incomers keep objecting to it.

In the meantime he drives a 14 yr old car that is ready for the scrapheap, his farm insurance has gone through the roof after a series of farm thefts.

I do wonder whether we will get a phone call telling us he has commited suicide.

Why does he still do it? It's in his blood, he didn't go to university to get a degree in argriculture, he was born on that farm.

The only people who can stand up for the farmers are the farmers and the rural living people, because the city folk certainly won't. They are too busy moaning about the cost of fuel to drive from home to the local shop in their 4litre Chelsea Tractor which has never seen mud to worry about the cost for a farmer having to drive a tractor (also known as a Devonshire Rolls) during their working day who provides the food on their plate..

bonehead:

With the Press reporting daily that us in the farming game have never had it so good, supporting their claims with the rocketing food prices . 

Yet how much of that actually gets to the farmer's pocket? 1p for every litre of milk? 2p for every joint of pork where the prices at the till rocket by 50p/£1?

Eiter people are in denial or are completely stupid if they can't tell the difference between what a farmer sells his products for and what a farmer actually gets back.

Bonehead:     In my view all more or less true, I think,... and Bradworthy's central points as well.  

And I think you could have written about these same principles, and gen public's perception and knowledge of the Ag industry 10 / 15 years ago.  

Smaller farmers just put in more hours and pay themselves less when times get tough.   BUT these  UK farmers  don't complain as such.  It is not in their make up to go public, as Bradworthy said, ' for fear of being seen to whinge', and by  being tarred with the brush of wealthier members..   In any case there's a farm to run tomorrow morning.` 

But if the facts ( true facts ) are quantified, clear, correctly presented and maintained,  its the basis for a campaign.   

Which one of you is going to take the matter up to conclusion with the powers that be.?....  .If the industry starts now, you may have an idea in 20 years time, of the result  you would like to have in 50 yrs. 

But at current rates of progress....... 

Re my post.20.55

..For Bradworthy...Please read Flowerdrum.  Deepest apologies.

 TS

tom smith:

Re my post.20.55

..For Bradworthy...Please read Flowerdrum.  Deepest apologies.

 TS

no probs

I agree flowerdrum with you, the dairy and meat industry are playing its swan song and still the public do not believe us, all they see is wealthy landowners, toffs ect.

They dont see the daily struggle of sorting out a small problem on the farm or going without in the house. The publics perception of the industry is the gutter, thats why i believe that open warfare would be detrimental in the long run for agriculture, campaign yes, by god yes campaign.

But the industry must use tact to keep walking the moral high ground that is oh so often trashed by the british media.

Perhaps we are aiming the fight at the wrong people.  If there is one thing we have learned in the last twelve months it is that the public appears fully willing to pay more for their food, but the problem of low farmgate prices remains.  The general public has no control over who gets what share of the money they pay, so farmers should be camaigning at the people who actually buy the produce at the farm, rather than the end user.  It is the processors, hauliers etc who dictate the farmgate price, these are who need to be targeted through farmers co-operating and ensuring a fair price for their products.  The public may moan, but will pay what is asked.

Robexel....quite right.

The food end users are, I think, not generally happy at paying higher prices, especially to see the supermarkets ( all ) post increasingly high profits at their expense.    One can argue over their profits against capital invested etc.. But the same applies to the farm value and investment. 

The English support for the underdog would probably prevail if a comparison of  'price to farmer from the supermarts. versus the price to consumer from the supermarts '   was readily seen in the public domain.    Then you have another string to your bow.  A groundswell of public opinion in your favour.  

Add to this the fact that the producer accepts all the risks over many months or years, while the supermart.  takes the product in with one hand, value adds a little, and sells it on with a high margin from the other, effectively overnight. 

Unfortunately the Farmers marts. I have visited were very expensive and of course with limited options.  Otherwise I would always go there.

I see from the question of the week that most people are in favour of taking direct action on fuel prices. But is this right. Did those people who voted yes mean they would take part or did they means they would be supportive if others took action?