FW's brand new student columnist Harriet Wilson has just blogged about young people and stock judging.

19-year-old Harriet has just returned from Kilkenny to compete in the International Limousin judging competition, and the event got her thinking. Here's an extract from her blog post:

" Some say that stockjudging is an out dated competition and that Young Farmers should turn their attention to competitions which attract everyone. Do I think that stockjudging is out-dated? Most certainly not. Stockjudging does not only improve on your stockmanship skills, but also public speaking ability and self-confidence. I think that it is far less daunting to give reasons to a master judge, than it is to stand up and speak to a room full of people in a public speaking competition..."

She's passionate about the subject and wants to hear what other people's thoughts are on the subject. Leave her a message on her blog or add a comment to this thread.

Yes !

Was at a show a couple of years ago and the main judge was ill, so they asked a young, professional shepherd to do the judging. The show asked him how he would go about it and he said "I'll do the best I can but I can't judge just by looking at them I need to see their figures." But there weren't any figures. We also bought a show tup 5 years ago, everyone who saw him thought he was the bees-knees. His lambs were dreadful. We went onto the Signet recording scheme at the same time, which showed that the show flock he had come from were bred for looks and didn't produce results in terms of lambs.

See the point of above for bredding stock and the use of figures, but for butchers animals it's surely vital for farmers to be able to assess their stock accurately - we're constantly being told to finish not simply to weight but to hit target conformation and fat grades. I have represented my club/county up to nationals and alot of the important stuff is based on ability to talk correctly, making a good impression etc. which are vital for general business and you also get the chance to meet different people and discuss various aspects.

You buy store stock through the ring by eye and the butchers buy the fats by eye, so no, stock judging is not outdated it is an important skill that young farmers should be encouraged to master.

Look at figures when buying breeding stock. It would be a boring show that was judged on paper, the skill of the showman is also worthy of judgement.

Stock Judging is definitely a skill that should be developed. Unfortunately the show ring, whilst a great place to exhibit your cattle, is not the place that allows you to evaluate the breeding potential of the cattle. Cattlemen feed for the show ring and we all know that a bit of condition hides a lot of faults. In the show ring you should look for stucture first beneath the fleshing if it is breeding stock that you are after. Then look for balance and locomotion, then look at confirmation and fat last. this still will not give an animals breeding potential. To do this you need to do at least one of these two things: 1. Study the animals pedigree and relate what you see to the parents, you will need to do this for many years, indeed probably throughout your lifetime !!! Some stockmen I know have brains like a sponge and they store this information in their heads indefintely only to use it when they need to. If you're like me it goes in one day and is lost the next. 2. Look at the EBVs. This should give you an estimate of how the beast will breed. But look at the figures and the animal in question together. Good figures alone are not enough. Look at the accuracy of the figures. Selecting breeding stock from the show ring alone is a recipe for disaster. But you do need to hone your selection skills and I can think of no better way than proper Stock judging competitions where you have to give your reasons. The Dairy men allways seem to go into detail at the summer shows with their reasons, but the beef men shy away from the microphone and when they do give reasons they are so vague that they are almost useless. We need to train our youngsters the right way because there is a whole generation of beef breeders, possibly two generations, that have lost the skills to judge properly with reasons. Clear concise standards for the breed in question should be the benchmark against which all judging should be based. This nonsense of "it's all down to the judges views on the day" needs to stop. These sorts of comments merely underline the complete lack of Stockjudging skills that exist in some of the pedigree breeds.

I had a group of local young farmers up for a beef stock judging practise. They had bought with them a very experienced judge to show them the ropes. Obviously it's important that they can judge which animal is best and of course it does their confidence and public speaking skills a lot of good.

The problem I have with stock judging is that it's all very well knowing which is the best animal, but it's equally important to be able to tell which is going to make them the most profit. For example, I had a bunch of nice BBx steers and another bunch of not so good quality Limx's. I was trying to get through to them that although the BBx's were obviously better cattle, I would have a better margin in the poorer bunch because I had paid significantly less for them. Even their experienced tutor had to concede that I was right when presented with the figures.

Hi everyone I am Harriet Wilson, I would firstly like to thank you all for your comments on this subject. It is one that I am very passionate about. Since joining YFC I have travelled all over the country competing and most recently in Kilkenny. For me, it is a competition of which I enjoy, it is always a challenge, I have learnt so much from and one that I can be sucessful in. It has brought about so many opportunities for me including my upcoming trip to Canada. However, lets not forget the the biggest advantage of learning to judge animals from a young age is that they have the ability to match animals to market demand, ensuring sustainibility and to improve returns. But stockjudging also improves public speaking ability and self confidence. Stockjudging is far from out-dated and should be a YFC competition for years to come

I'm glad there is still passion for stock judging. As a county, we've struggled to get many people involved in it. I think we've got a few keen now but it does seem to be a sadly dwindling skill/interest considdering all the skills it helps to hone.

Hi all, Stockjudging was my first ever YFC competition and I've certainly been bitten by the bug. From an outside perspective it's quite an odd concept to understand but beyond the face value stock knowledge there are so many reasons why Stockjudging is much more than just a competition.

1.     Improved knowledge of a variety of livestock which you may not necessarily have experience with, generating respect for other aspects of the industry2.     Public Speaking skills; so highly valued by employers these days3.     Confidence; once upon a time I was a shy, quite little girl......4.     Better understanding of where food comes from; especially being able to visit an abattoir5.     A chance for members from various clubs & counties to get together; we young farmers will do anything for a social! 

6.     Time Management

7.     Greater Food Knowledge8.     Team Spirit; working together, sharing knowledge between the generations and achieving a collective goal

9.     Truly Unique (try explaining it to a friend!)

10.   Provides a drive and determination to do well

11.   Nobody can ever know everything so you can always aim higher and push themselves to be better

On top of this, on a more personal level, competing in Stockjudging competitions has undoubtedly provided some "common ground" between me and my dad. Since introducing me to the competition he’s always been not only my biggest support but my harshest critic. Working with him to improve my performance has been an honour as he’s got so much knowledge. In the same way being able to impress him and do him proud has been a greater achievement for me than any trophy.

So, is Stockjudging outdated? Certainly not. If anything, in an age where young people are so often labelled as hopeless layabouts, it’s more important than ever.

funghi warrior:

Stock Judging is definitely a skill that should be developed. Unfortunately the show ring, whilst a great place to exhibit your cattle, is not the place that allows you to evaluate the breeding potential of the cattle.

I like the arguments of funghi. He/she is right in that 'science' and its attendant 'numeric values.' is being increasingly used to predict breeding outcomes and to match those outcomes to what we are told "The customer wants."

It is as if science had been used to determine what constituted the market for the human voice, and so opera houses hired only those singers whose voices matched the scientific requirement.

What a boring world it would be. Everything bred to represent the 'norm.' No deviatione (except say, within the allowed range of one standard deviation)

Yes there is a place for the various animals, various conformities, fat contents, visual appearances etc and for the men and women who love to judge them.

I liken the meat grades of the supermarket to Pop music. Lots of it is consumed by lots of people. It is cheap to produce and satisfies a functional need.

However, I buy my meat from our local butcher, and l get my music from the concert hall, church and opera house.

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I think stock judging is out of date if you consider it is a way of selecting the best animals. Animals can be showing good genes and hiding a load that are bad. You can't see that JUST by looking. You need the figures or failing that, or as well as that I would say, I would like to see all the stock related to the animal in question. I have ordinary looking sheep and cows that consistently breed well, and I have good looking animals that don't breed as well. And you can't see mothering ability as with other crucial factors.