Cookies & Privacy
in

June 18, 1812

Last post Thu, Jun 28 2012 22:08 by peesie. 61 replies.
Page 2 of 3 (62 items) < Previous   1 2 3   Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 8:19 In reply to

    • He his-self
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • North East Scotland

    Re: June 18, 1812

    Born in Kirkbean actually. My kids went to the same school he did. His parents house is still there too.
    A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 8:54 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    i have visited his house long ago. is there not a museum or something there to him?

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 10:13 In reply to

    • motley
    • Top 150 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Mar 30 2009
    • Suffolk

    Re: June 18, 1812

    Jacobus:
    Motley would have recalled that John Paul Jones's atttack on Whitehaven occurred some 34 years previously in 1778 during the American War of Independance

    True

    However my history has the French and said colonies linked, and indeed the dispute is conected surely with the period in the 1756 "seven years war" and Woolfe and others/ No?

    I will not resort to the last of the Mohicans film as evidence but I do hold a canadle for the general's dark haired daughter and hawkeye - the carrier of the long carabine

    I particularly enjoy the moment when the runner sets off and 3 of the attacking forces men are taken out through the use of the guns used by Hawkeye. It is always a test of my respect for a manager/leader: Would I be a runner for them if they were holding La Longue carbine for my safety?

    Farming is for us, all.
  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 10:39 In reply to

    • Peter Wells
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Gloucestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: June 18, 1812

    glasshouse:
    yes motley, there is a lot of history conveniently forgotten in britain

    As regards education in history of which I am a great fan, I believe that it's lessons can be used to 'inform' and 'guide' our lives today.

    The key point however is to whether we use that education to move us towards a more peaceful and kinder world or whether it is used as justification for self assertion at the expense of other groups.

    The Americans, it seems to me have managed to establish their own identity and can view history without the rancour that seems to be inherent in many others throughout Europe and the Middle East.

     

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 14:24 In reply to

    • Jacobus
    • Top 75 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Worcestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: June 18, 1812

    motley:
    and indeed the dispute is conected surely with the period in the 1756 "seven years war" and Woolfe and others/ No?
    Not really.  At least as far as North America is concerned I believe the French thought they came off lightly in the eventual settlement; ceceding their part of what is now Canada to us (they thought this a really troublesome territory being in constant conflict with the native indians) but retaining the rich sugar plantations of Guadeloupe and Martinique in the Carribean.  The Spanish gave up Florida to us but gained the Louisanna territories to the east of the Mississippi from the French.

    I always thought the war of 1812 was really just an economic one - the blockade of continental Europe by the Royal Navy stifling trade for the USA.  Perhaps with a bit of left-over sympathy for the French for their help in the War of Independence.

    KF did say that he had been taught differently in school but I don't recall him saying what reasons the US saw for the war.

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 14:46 In reply to

    • Jacobus
    • Top 75 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Worcestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: June 18, 1812

    Peter Wells:
    The Americans, it seems to me have managed to establish their own identity and can view history without the rancour that seems to be inherent in many others throughout Europe and the Middle East.
    I agree.  For the most part that's true.

    I also believe that we English are the same, except that we tend to regard those for whom ancient history is still part of their current mindset with a sort of haughty condescension which probably gets up their noses.

    The average Englishman can see no reason why the inhabitants of the outer portions of the UK still get exercised by The Battle of the Boyne, Culloden or the fate of Owain Glyndwr.  After all, he would reason, we don't fret about what could have been had it not been for the Roman invasion, the Battle of Hastings or the many others in between.

    This is especially true when the conflicts are between two factions such as the Orangemen in Ulster.  Are the MacDonalds and Campbells still at daggers drawn?  Perhaps glasshouse will enlighthen us.

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 15:11 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    jacobus, well said, it does get right up our noses.

    as to the campbells, they were merely the tools of lord dalrymple, the real villain of the peice , who deserves our hatred.

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 15:50 In reply to

    • robsy01
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Mar 12 2007

    Re: June 18, 1812

    glasshouse:

    yes motley, there is a lot of history conveniently forgotten in britain.

    yes we must all point out the wrong doings by other countries but we must all sweep under the carpets all the wrongdoings by britain espacially england pokeing their noses into things that dont concern them.
  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 15:57 In reply to

    • bovril
    • Top 75 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2009
    • Essex

    Re: June 18, 1812

    robsy01:

    We must all point out the wrong doings by other countries, but we must all sweep under the carpets all the wrongdoings by Britain, especially England poking their noses into things that dont concern them.

    You obviously never watch the BBC! Their popular agenda is totally the opposite.
  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 17:51 In reply to

    • Jacobus
    • Top 75 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Worcestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: June 18, 1812

    glasshouse:

    jacobus, well said, it does get right up our noses.

    as to the campbells, they were merely the tools of lord dalrymple, the real villain of the peice , who deserves our hatred.

    I'm sure he would have deserved your hatred had you been around at the time, but he's been dead for 305 years.
  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 18:19 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    dead or not, he has never been brought to justice, and his descendents still own large tracts of scotland.

    the point is, the campbells are portrayed as the villains in a tribal feud, which is partially true, but the real story is seldom told.

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 19:24 In reply to

    • Peter Wells
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Gloucestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: June 18, 1812

    glasshouse:
    dead or not, he has never been brought to justice

     This is an interesting point. How do you suppose he could now be 'brought to justice?"

    glasshouse:
    his descendents still own large tracts of scotland

    Who would you now suggest 'should' own the land. (Bear in mind that the answer must fullly reflect the claims and circumstances of the ancestors of those you choose)

    glasshouse:
    the campbells are portrayed as the villains in a tribal feud, which is partially true, but the real story is seldom told

    No doubt there has been much written about this feud and I would appreciate a summarised reference to its analysis. (At the moment my bedtime reading is John Le Carre and is due for completion in about four nights.) 

    PS. I have had a look at Wikipedia

    www.sawneybean.com/horrors/Glencoe.htm

    I also see that the two clan chiefs have reconciled themselves: viz a press cutting on google 

    CAMPBELL FEUD ENDS

    London, May 28-A handshake between a kilted Highland chief- tain and a Scottish war veteran has ended the 298-ycars-old clan feud since the Campbells treacherously fell upon their inveterate enemies the MacDonalds in thc massacre of

    Glencoe in 1092.

    There has been hate between the

    clans since.

    But on Saturday night the Duke of Argyll, the chief of Clan Camp-

    bell held out a hand of frendship to 73-year-old John MacDonald, a direct descendant of the massacred

     

    branch of the clan.

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 21:51 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    i seem to recall that cromwell was dug up and beheaded, that would do nicely for dalrymple, who was a lying murdering toad.

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 22:01 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    Peter Wells:

    Who would you now suggest 'should' own the land. (Bear in mind that the answer must fullly reflect the claims and circumstances of the ancestors of those you choose)

    Preferably the farmers that farm the land.

    Considering that the individual we're referring to here was instrumental in the acceptance of William of Orange in Scotland, (which led to the formation of the Bank of England and capitalism as we know it) it's a tad ironic that over 300 years later his descendants continue to impose a feudalist system on the tenant farmers.  Although those of us in the middle of the region have, over time, been able to take advantage of the 'Wealth doesn't pass 3 generations' (Chinese proverb) by buying the land, allowing us to participate fully in the capital formation process, to the extreme West and East the aristocracy continue to cling on.

    If you're looking for a book on the events at Glencoe....

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Glencoe-Story-Massacre-John-Prebble/dp/0140028978/
    www.thelittlecheeseshop.co.uk
  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 23:09 In reply to

    • Jacobus
    • Top 75 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Worcestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: June 18, 1812

    glasshouse:
    cromwell was dug up and beheaded
    But that was only three years after he died, not 300.
  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 23:24 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    Jacobus:
    But that was only three years after he died, not 300.
     

    Either way, I doubt he would have felt a thing.

  • Tue, Jun 26 2012 23:38 In reply to

    • old mcdonald
    • Top 75 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Oct 27 2008
    • Near Castelo Branco, Portugal

    Re: June 18, 1812

    Of course the Campbells have never been forgiven, nor will they ever be. They know it themselves. Some names are "good" names, and some are not. As recently as 1992, as the final question, I was asked my opinion of the Clan Campbell in an interview for an administrative position with the Highland Constabulary. The Chairman, a Campbell, had already told me during the interview, that I "an incomer from Australia" could not possibly expect to be appointed to such a position when there were suitable applicants born and bred in the locality. My response ensured that I had no hope of being offered the post.
  • Wed, Jun 27 2012 21:37 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    personally i never buy campbells soup, or go to campbells the butcher, there was a boy called campbell at school, i gave him a wide berth.

    as to dalrymple, whats the difference between 3 or 300 yrs when you are dead anyway?

  • Wed, Jun 27 2012 22:19 In reply to

    • peesie
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 18 2011

    Re: June 18, 1812

    I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread,which contains an awful lot of absolute codswallop.
  • Wed, Jun 27 2012 22:52 In reply to

    • Jacobus
    • Top 75 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Worcestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: June 18, 1812

    glasshouse:
    as to dalrymple, whats the difference between 3 or 300 yrs when you are dead anyway?
    The difference is that in all probability Cromwell's mutilators had personal reasons for their anger.  To pursue the same aim after 300 years looks like some sort of mindless fanaticism.

    glasshouse:
    personally i never buy campbells soup, or go to campbells the butcher, there was a boy called campbell at school, i gave him a wide berth.

    Given your obvious hatred of Dalrymple, the obvious question arises as to whether you also ostracise anyone of that name? 
  • Wed, Jun 27 2012 23:19 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    sorry jacobus, i was just winding you up there.

    who brought up glencoe anyway?

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 8:16 In reply to

    • Dick
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Jul 12 2007

    Re: June 18, 1812

    Wow reading this thread has amazed me.

     I had no idea of the bitter hatred which exists between the various branches of  Scottish society which has manifest itself on our forum.  If they hate one another with such obvious intensity what is going to happen when they leave the UK?? 

     Will the Campbells then be purged or sent to some Gulag in the wilds of the Shetlands and will they invite the descendent's of Bonny Prince Charlie to rule over them?

     I read these postings in complete amazement and thankful that I am an Englishman.

    DickSurprise

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 8:43 In reply to

    Re: June 18, 1812

    dick , my tongue was firmly in my cheek about the campbells, as i am not a highlander anyway, but if you are talking hatred, the rangers/celtic protestant / catholic hatred takes the biscuit.

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 10:49 In reply to

    • Peter Wells
    • Top 25 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Sun, May 22 2005
    • Gloucestershire
    • Trusted Users

    Re: June 18, 1812

    glasshouse:
    sorry jacobus, i was just winding you up there
     

    Actually glasshouse (one shouldn't throw stones) I have learned something more about you from this one comment that may explain a lot of your postings on a number of subjects. As the written medium is not the best means of giving off nuanced messages unless delicately phrased, I had pretty well taken all of your postings at face value and, as a consequence, took you to be a person of rather didactic knowledgeable views albeit unresponsive to reasoned debate which is more the style of Socrates.

    I shall, in future, have to take the view that you are not necessarily saying what is in your mind but are, as it were, playing a role on the stage whereby we the audience, have more to assume that you are speaking the words of your character rather than telling us what your own views are.

    I take it then, that you are an ardent Unionist Landowner who frequently visits London to dine at Whites or the Athenaeum with Banker friends, prior to travelling via the Palace to Fortnum and Masons, there to purchase tins of Cambell's beef broth to take home to Mrs Glasshouse who runs a soup kitchen for your serfs on the Glasshouse Estate of Inverbrigadoon.

    Can I now say that you have been 'Outed?'

     

  • Thu, Jun 28 2012 11:17 In reply to

    • motley
    • Top 150 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on Mon, Mar 30 2009
    • Suffolk

    Re: June 18, 1812

    Peter Wells:
    the written medium is not the best means of giving off nuanced messages 

    I would add here the written medium on the interweb. The written medium is a perfectly acceptable medium to express nuanced messages, because it calls upon the reader to read, reflect even think about what has been written. Books have ben a success for 1,000s of years and when massed produced through printing adavnced our collective knowledge enormously. But web clucking now this is a different thing al together.

    Web chatter like e mail is the blunt instrument of written communication. Folk (I am included) roving the eye over the words too quickly and then formulating a response to what they think they have seen (not read) and to what they think someone else has seen (not read). Added into this mixture is the presumption by some contributors is 'their own knowledge about of the poster' and the consequential pidgeon hole they have stuffed them in.

    Dialogue and debate is not easily achieved on these types of written forums, because too many are either manufacturing offence or seek to manufacture their own offence. There is also a type of teenage pack mentality especially noticable if you are found to be disagreeable. Too often these 'written' forums seek to find the confirmation of biased knowledge as opposed to a seeking of the truth.

    I adore it when a thread kicks off on climate change, united kingdom tribal relations and other such scientific nostrums. It like Welsh and willing points to as codswollop, but I love it.

    Farming is for us, all.
Page 2 of 3 (62 items) < Previous   1 2 3   Next >
© RBI 2001-2010
Powered by Community Server (Commercial Edition), by Telligent Systems