has anyone ever tried maize silage for sheep?? what are the effects and are the milk yields any different? have you noticed a difference in lamb size? faster growth, or does it all turn into fat? please help. John

John, I know these aren't sheep but it might be of use. www.givendale-goats.com We have 130 acres of maize this year and it is the only forage we feed to our 1200 goats, the main thing is the correct balance of protein and energy as always and yes we are mad. Neil

Do you still feed your maize silage to them when your drying them off or do you put them on hay? im feeding mine 50:50 barley and maize corn creep feed for the lambs with a protein supplement, and the sheep are on hay and a bit of pasture, but the clever or just plain arseholes manage to push through the creep feeder gate and eat,s**t and piss in it!! well thanks alot for the reply i think now ive got a second opinion ill try them on some maize over the winter and then through lambing. Like you say you must be mad because my mother was looking into milking goats and shes off her bloody trolley!!!! thanks alot. John

Drying them off is the biggest problem we have. They actually go onto straw and water for a month, gradually introducing a little sugar beet pulp after 10 days, little hay after 20 days and then silage again slowly. Mind you they can still be giving over a gallon a day at drying off (yes they are pregnant - scanned). I may be mad but at least I'm not a shepherd. Have Fun - Neil

Do you ever get any mastitis in your goats? we have never have any problems with sheep, but then again we never have fed them on any silage before. Do you do block 'kidding' with your goats like you can with cows or are they like sheep and only cycle at one time of the year? well thanks again. and anyway sheperds are well thought of, check out the bible!!! after all if it wasn't for us there would be no christmas, therefore no christmas piss up!! see ya. john.

Our goats only get mastitis once! I can't see how feed will make a difference unless they are laying in it. The biggest potential problem is listeria from mould etc. Sides and top of clamp must be trimmed well at feeding, We probably should buy a few cattle to eat the 'waste' maize but at our beef prices it could be cheaper to throw it away! Breeding is seasonal but with a little goat fooling going on over the winter with floodlights we can keep the milk output from dipping too much over the following winter. I suppose I could ship a few over to you (NZ?) to breed in your autumn and then ship back pregnant to boost our winter milk! We are in talks to send embryos to Australia next year, to take them out during our breeding season, do all the health checks and then implant them into (feral ?) goats in the southern hemisphere breeding season. Pedigree goat keepers told us that maize silage makes them infertile but we seem to find it can make them too fat if not balanced for protien and that causes infertility. We have one girl that we can't get back in kid but she is still giving 6 kilos per day after milking for 3 years so who cares! Neil

how much per head do you think i should feed these sheep? bearing in mind they're not milking just suckling lambs for three to four months. im now trying to find away to feed the maize whilst contemplating the deep snow we get in the winter. battling 3 foot of snow whilst forking bloody silage is enough work for my liking, let alone when it starts hailing!!!! On a slightly different note my mum has researched the goat milking industry over here (Canada) and to be honest some european breeding wouldn't go a miss this side of the ocean! it might be worth exporting some embryo's out of some good goat families, just an idea. Mum is interested in what an average daily yeild for one of your goats is, based on a 305 day lactation, and what ppl you get over there. she says that producers here are really happy if they get 3 litres a day!! i too am trying to get my sheep to breed out of season to get a better lamb price. have you had any luck with sponging?? do you know any technique which works best? hope you don't mind me picking your brains! best wishes john

I would have thought one of the important (but difficult) things in keeping dairy goats is to switch off the dairy cow part of your brain. The 305 day lactation is one of these dairy cow management "truths" drummed in to us at college but which probably isn't the universal truth that it's cracked up to be even for cows, never mind goats! If your Mum wants to make comparisons, get her to do it on yield per acre per year or cash in the bank.

Dear Worms, Having never had anything to do with goats in the UK, but having done a lot of research over here, I was just curious as to what average lactation figures were back home. Reason being, the goat idustry is relatively new, and not too far off the ground yet. I really think animal quality needs improving, and wonder about importing embryos from reliable sources. Being an ex-British dairy farmer, I KNOW the UK has the highest standards in animal health and quality stock, but I don't know what we would be aiming for in terms of production.(sadly, I never went to ag. college, as I had a very strict father who told me I could either be a nurse or a teacher!!!) I don't take figures to seriously, but wonder if the "norm" over here of 2.5 - 3 litres/day/goat, over 305 days, could be improved? Sue (mum)

Sue, I'm sure if you started a topic and the heading included "goat" you would attract the information you need. Especially from our Forum friend Neil Armitage and his 100's of goats. Hope you don't mind Neil but it's a lovely web-site you've got (especially like the pictures of them in the rotary parlour). http://www.givendale-goats.com/farm.htm

Sue, Sorry if I misinterpreted the query - I assumed you were trying to compare goats with cows, rather than Canadian goats with UK ones. The goats I've been involved with haven't been UK either and in more marginal grazing where your figures would look good. I notice that the 305 day lactation seems to be a feature of US goat data where others quote litres (or kilos) per year - as does the Givendale site mentioned earlier. Most goat keepers that I have spoken to, consider the length of lactation without a dry-period or the nutritional cost of producing another kid to be one of the key advantages of goats, which is what prompted my comment.

please don't apologise, as every comment and idea is interesting and helpful to me. thanks for taking the time to reply. these forums are such an excellent way to communicate, especially when out of the country best wishes, Sue

John (and Sue), our average yield is 1400 kilos in 365 (approx 1200 in 305) days. Top individuals peak at 8 kilos per day but we would rather have a level (ish) yield of 5 kilos as we cannot feed for 8 litres in a complete diet group. We have bought 3 dry sow feeders to convert to out of parlour feeders but haven't had time yet. The 365 days is a convention of the British Goat Society and I think relates to the fact that a lot of BGS members keep them for a ( paying) hobby and do not breed then every year, but carry on milking them. The british goat is well known for its ability to milk through beyond 12 months, a characteristic which is very desirable in a commercial enterprise. Good friends of ours are waiting for their green card to emigrate to Ontario to set up a dairy goat farm, after looking around our herd and deciding they liked the idea but opportunities were better for them in Canada. They got a lot of info from the Ontario Goat Milk Producers Assosciation website (do a search) and have bought a 60 acre farm over there with the sale proceeds of their 9 acre smallholding and have change! We hope to export embryos or semen to their herd when they get settled and compare the stock. The goat industry seems to be international as our cow herd never was, perhaps because it is a niche market there needs to be more exchange of ideas (and genetics). We have just agreed the sale of 300 embryos to Australia and hope to do more in the future. The only drawback of this deal is that the females must be slaughtered and scrapie tested after donating embryos, all part of the health testing required by Australian government! For specific questions I will be glad to tell you what we have learnt, but contact me via the website or everyone will know as much (or as little) as I do. Christine (Ball) has been very helpful to us too. ps I see from your other posting that you still own your UK quota. We gave up with the black and whites 4 years ago and very reluctantly took a loss on the quota but at least they can't take the money away from us now. If your son wants to milk in the future have you considered two teats not four?

Hello, Neil, My son, John jnr., is mad at me for hi-jacking his forum topic! Sorry. I just had to have one last word, mothers usually do, you know(!), actually, a couple...... I can't believe it, but it must be David & Lynne Robertshaw to whom you are referring, right? They are moving only about 15 minutes away from us, and we chat quite a lot on the phone! They will laugh when you tell them it's me you've been "talking" to. I got really interested in dairy goats not long after we came here, when we couldn't afford to go into cow dairying, and other options did not seem that good either. After loads of research, my husband said that if that's what I really wanted to do, fine, but I wouldn't get any help from him!! Young John was quite interested, but still mourns the loss of the cows. Maybe in the future? The future is still very uncertain in the dairy goat industry, as oversupply has formed its own quota, and dairies are forcing producers to dump milk for the 3rd year running. They are trying to form their own milk marketing board, but its in its infancy yet. Hopefully by the time Dave & Lynne get over, things will be looking up, but an export contract with the USA, which promised to take as much milk as they could send, has temporarily fallen through, possibly due to border restrictions & BSE. Anyway, thanks for answering my questions, I'll let you carry on with JohnBoy now! Good luck, Sue