Farmers are being asked whether they would be willing to voluntarily alert neighbours before they go spraying.

The NFU is seeking views on using a voluntary approach to prior notification, in the light of an on-going court case between campaigner Georgina Downs and DEFRA.

The case is due to resume on 18 May when DEFRA’s appeal against the Ms Downs’ will be heard.

Georgina Downs’ case is that DEFRA has failed to carry out it duty to protect neighbours under existing European Union pesticide regulations.

A judge ruled in her favour in November 2008 and it is this verdict that DEFRA is appealing against.

The union has said that comments made by DEFRA secretary Hilary Benn recently suggest that it is likely that some new rules will have to be introduced.

The NFU has issued a briefing document on its website which says if measures need to be introduced it is “far better if they are industry led”.

Options suggested include sending a letter to all households bordering a farm each winter which asks if they want to be notified before a relevant field is sprayed by text message. The onus would be on the neighbour to contact the farmer to ‘opt in’ if they wanted to.

The text message could say something as simple as “spraying field toady in 1 hour etc”.

An alternative is that a letter would be sent as above but the neighbour would respond to the Chemical Regulations Directive (formerly the PSD) who would then inform the farmer if the neighbours wanted to be notified. They would also receive a text.

What do you reckon? Would you back a voluntary scheme? What problems would you foresee?

We have a 20acre block of arable ground bordering a large housing estate.

we try and spray when the wind is in the right direction,and during the working week when most have gone to work.

To prewarn all the house holders would be a big undertaking, personally i think the ground would revert to set aside, or grass for hay. the location makes it unsuitable for grazing.

At the moment we have no problems as we make every effort to make sure do not upset our neighbours.

I would prefer the system as it is now

Why text messages, thats incredibly expensive, why not simply update or email a page of the DEFRA website and residents can check it if they're at all concerned, also the time to carryout spraying after a single notification needs to be as long as possible more like 'Spraying will be carried out the week commencing...' rather than shorter periods that don't allow for breakdowns changes in weather conditions, running out of supplies etc.

 However none of this should be considered for too long or put in place until such time as Ms Downs case is proven and DEFRA have had a chance to appeal.

I assume that the union is concerned that if they wait until the appeal the industry will be hit with something far more draconian and unworkable than if people come up with a voluntary scheme. Same principle as they are applying with the debate over set-aside.

it seems to be the standard tactic used by the union at the moment. I don't know how effective it is, but it seems to show the lack of power held by NFU when in negotiations with DEFRA, some may quote the VI as a success story of this tactic but the reality is that its a bureaucratic nightmare, sometimes i feel like it would of been easier to pay a spray tax and be done with it!!

We desperately need to de-regulate farming in this country or at least drastically simplify the existing regulation  

edward hammond:

it seems to be the standard tactic used by the union at the moment. I don't know how effective it is, but it seems to show the lack of power held by NFU when in negotiations with DEFRA, some may quote the VI as a success story of this tactic but the reality is that its a bureaucratic nightmare, sometimes i feel like it would of been easier to pay a spray tax and be done with it!!

You are not alone in thinking this. I've heard a couple of people say the same thing recently. Must admit I'm torn..

Weather its self imposed regulation or state regulation it needs to be kept simple and if that means making things a bit tougher then we should consider that and weigh up the pros and cons realistically.

On an aside I personally think that over complex regulations is THE biggest barrier to young people entering the industry, whilst many people are happy to pay a fortune and employ consultants to do their paperwork they shouldn't have to. 

 Prior Notification: Observations!

Who is anyone to pre-judge the outcome of the Downs Appeal?

Are the NFU being sold a pup by Hillary Benn, to voluntarily put something in place before we are forced to?

If the worst happens and we have to give prior notification , then the least direct contact with a potentially  agressive and transient populus the better!

Imagine farming on the urban fringe.....How many separate residences in a block of flats? .........Who is working on that industrial estate?

If we were to have a central hub database of farmer contact details(postcodes and map refferances) where the public could 'opt-in' for information requests, then who would run it and who would pay for it.............Would Chemical Regulations Directive (PSD) have funds? I doubt it!

Whilst many farmers will begrudgingly accept the need for set-aside flanking measures under Option B, many whose incomes will be under severe pressure in the next 18 months may think voluntary prior notification is a step too far.

What was that I hear you say?.......N F U are launching a new membership drive in the arable east...........

What do they mean by a neighbour? What kind of distances are we looking at? We need more detail.

I don't think there is any detail at the moment. The NFu's briefing documents says:

 Is this not the case of voluntarily gold plating our own legislation?

If all pesticides are approved , all sprayers have an MOT test and all operators are NoRoSo registered, then which parts of these safeguards are failing?

Is not the legislative control already in place?

Oh, and by the way................are farmers to be notified when the utillity companies are spraying off adjacent vegetation , and when the gardeners are  using pesticides in their gardens?

Not For Us:

 Is this not the case of voluntarily gold plating our own legislation?

If all pesticides are approved , all sprayers have an MOT test and all operators are NoRoSo registered, then which parts of these safeguards are failing?

Is not the legislative control already in place?

Oh, and by the way................are farmers to be notified when the utillity companies are spraying off adjacent vegetation , and when the gardeners are  using pesticides in their gardens?

 

 The trouble is with texts it A) assumes people have a mobile

B) that they don't mind giving their mobile number out to the neighbouring farmer(s)

C) that when someone new moves in they are going to go and give the farmer(s) their number something that wouldn't be on most peoples minds when moving in.

D) is a bit unworkable for epople with built up areas boardering thier land we only 50 hectares but if we sprayed our fields would have a lot to ring up.

E)That there are no pubs/stable/riding schools/any other business boardering your land as it would be impossible to notify all those involved/visiting

Another ill concieved plan brought in by those who have no practical knowledge of the industry in which they rule, its about time we insisted that only people with experience of what its like to try doing these jobs decide the rules and regulations.

Spraying is often a spur of the moment decision, often an evening pursuit that would be often unachievable for us on our farms that are littered with houses and cottages near to fields.

As for the Volountry Initiative it has not gained us much ,we have still had many chemicals removed by PSD , and i bet this will be pushed through too

 The job of the NFU is to protect the interests of farmers and not to collaborate with the socialists and their allies the eco fascists in their indecent and obscene campaigns to destroy our efficient agricultural industry. The NFU has already cost its members enormous amounts of cash and heartache by creating the Assurance scams and the so called Voluntary Inititive, no more crap, please. I dont think they, that is the Gentlemen farmers at NFU HQ, have any notion or understanding of how this idiotic suggestion would impact on those of us who farm in the urban wastelands of northern England. To give notice to all the houses on the surrounding Council estates would take days or weeks by which time the crop to be sprayed would be already dead.

Dick

The simplest way to avoid complex issues of notification in the long term is to incorporate a few lines in the Information Packs prepared on selling a house.

" Does the property have a common boundary with farmland? Yes/No. If yes please note that farming practice involves the application of various substances to the land (which include fertilisers, manures and dilute chemicals) in accordance with current law and Codes of Practice."

Existing property owners who neighbour farmland and have any issue with the above, as done within existing law and Codes of Practice, should move.

           To jump in with a "better this than that" plan is not the right approach. There are so many other factors that have to be taken into account with this debate that I am in favour of the NFU to hold our end up to the bitter end. factors such as anti-drift nozzles and the use of light breeze to take any spray away from the non-spray areas. (These and others already discussed here).

            To enforce prior notice of spraying is unpracticable and should not be necessary. It is an insult to all the training and testing we as spray operators have gone through and keep updated. Where there is the slightest risk or problem the spray operator will discuss this with the householders. That is the best solution of all.

 How often do we hear it said ''As soon as politicians get involved with practical application , the system goes pear shaped''.

Perhaps the NFU should stop being politicians for once!

Is there total consensus within the NFU on this issue?

Is this being pushed from the top down within the Union?

Do the views of the President match those of the National Crops Board?

Which part of this Forum's message do the NFU not understand?

Anyone from NFU wish to comment?

To shoot oneself in the foot is careless, to shoot oneself in both feet is stupidity

 In reply to posting by 'Not for Us'

I am in total agreement with your posting, how anyone paid to represent Farmers would even contemplate such a brain dead idea is extraordinry to say the least and in particular as I give them £500 each year to represent me and not to collaborate with our enemies in the green movement

. So come on you boys from HQ reply to our comments like real men and do not skulk behind the idiotic notion that you can placate the eco brigade by making our lives more difficult. Are you listening Mr Kendall or any other members of Council?  We presume someone amongst the good and the great at NFU HQ has  read this posting so a reasoned response would be much appreciated by the peasants out here in the real world.

Dick Lindley

Craman, You have no hope of getting such a brilliant, simple, effective and cost efficient system approved.

With refferance to the post from 'Dick' :

Maybe this will be a test of the NFU's Communications' Dept. to keep in touch with what the sharp end of the industry want.

it would be very difficult to give prior notifacation ,you could notify on the day but not before because of the weather,if you have a house ajoining the field it has to be sprayed when the wind is the wright way.so you cannot predict when you are going to spray a peticular field . 

I forgot to mention that where publicly owned housing abuts farmland then local authorities should perform a risk assessment as to whether they should place tenants in such housing. How's that Mac?!

         It always amazes me where the chemical manufacturers and dealers are when these safety aspects come up for discussion. I expect that they will be away on their private flights to exquisite places for golfing holidays. I have been told that many of these chemicals which cost us £10 to £20 per litre only cost pence per litre to produce.  

Craman, I like it! Even less hope of that though. Whoever heard of people taking responsibility for themselves in Britain? I have vague recollections that back in the '70s, before I went to Australia, some people did.