We have a few every year, twin lambs and one gets away from the mother and when they are paired up again the mother wont accept it back (all outdoor lambing). What do you do with the ewe? Cull it, mark it so if it does it again you know to get rid or just keep it and hope it was a freak occurrence and a one off? any tips on how to get the ewe to take both lambs on again?

Seems to happen more often when grass is short and/or the ewe has insufficient milk I think.

Natures way of ensuring that one strong lamb survives rather than both dieing perhaps ? I've no tips, once the ewe rejects a lamb, that's it I'm afraid. I don't really see it as cause for culling though.

welshnwilling:

I don't really see it as cause for culling though

Neither do I, I was just after others opinions and culling persistant offenders would be an option. I had one ewe this year that took one lamb into a wet spot in the field so its legs sunk down to its body and it couldnt move then the ewe went as far away as possible and would have anything to do with it again. Last year we had success with lamb adopter but this year they aren't for swaying their minds.

 mark them and if you have persistant offenders then lift a lamb and adopt it onto something else, not the easiest when you are outdoor lambing obviously. I would say generally theres a reason behind it, usually that the ewe just cant cope with two so she leaves one behind to ensure that at least one survives.

If you dont want to lift lambs and you have ewes that do it every single year then I would say its a reason for culling, also it will mean that you will eventually end up with more lambs reared/ewe if you get rid of the ones that cant cope with two.

a lamb adoption crate, a wooden mallet and a swearing!

seriously though, wnw is right.

Not quite the same, but similar. I have one goat left out of an original dozen bought to get us started. She was old when I bought her, and lost a tooth 3 years ago, but has had seven kiddings (almost all males) and apart from a single last year that died just after birth the rest have been twins. She has always rejected one until this year when she is rearing two good doe kids. Most of those rejected have had a problem and died, with the accepted and surviving kid always doing well. On a culling policy for rejecting she would have been long gone.

If we knew why they do these things then life would be too easy.

old mcdonald:

Most of those rejected have had a problem and died,

She must have known there was something wrong with them. Nature's way.

welshnwilling:

She must have known there was something wrong with them. Nature's way.

One of our last sheep to reject a lamb had two Swaledales, one healthy probably slightly over normal sized gimmer, one smaller tup with a gammy front leg. You can guess which one of the two she chose!

w'n'w, Do you think that does and ewes actually have a brain so that they can know things?  At the same time, I have to admit that I have seen it happen so many times with different kinds of stock that I do wonder. Maybe though, and only conjecture, if the newborn is not "right" does it behave in an unnatural way - one that we might not spot but the mother does, to the extent that the mother rejects it? It would be interesting to hear from people that have only kept smaller numbers and have had these experiences. I know that I am so much closer to the goats than when I farmed on a bigger scale, that I could well have missed such happenings, and especially when I lambed "on the hill".

old mcdonald:

w'n'w, Do you think that does and ewes actually have a brain so that they can know things?

Yes, or on the other hand they may just be fed up of waiting for the lamb that's "not right" to keep up / catch up ?

It's either intuition or impatience. I'm not sure which.

those kiwi clips that keep two lambs together are quite handy.

glasshouse:

kiwi clips that keep two lambs together are quite handy.

??

April 1st was six weeks ago.

welshnwilling:

Yes, or on the other hand they may just be fed up of waiting for the lamb that's "not right" to keep up / catch up ?

It's either intuition or impatience. I'm not sure which.

 

I suspect you've also met the occasional ewe who has had a protracted and exhausting/painful lambing, who doesn't want to suckle ANY lamb, and won't let milk down despite a fairly full udder.  She may be up and eating fairly well, but still "not right"; oxytocin doesn't help much, and then, nearing desperation, you try giving her a pain killer/anti depressant, et voila, she starts feeling better and behaving normally.

In my experience a first time lamber is much more likely than  an older ewes to reject one lamb of twins, possibly because her milk production potential is more limited, and without exception the lamb she wants to keep is the better one of the two at that time.  Just because sheep don't rate highly on the human IQ scale doesn't mean they can't be very good indeed at picking up signs of the less viable lamb..  The case where I think they sometimes get it wrong on a longer term basis is when the larger of an ill-matched pair of lambs is very slow coming out, and then quite dopey for a day or two until the brain damage resulting from anoxia during birth repairs itself.  I've certainly never been able to detect any long term demerits with such lambs.

 

wnw, its no windup!

glasshouse:

those kiwi clips that keep two lambs together are quite handy.

what are they like?

glasshouse:

wnw, its no windup!

I googled kiwi clips and didn't find anything. They're either called something else or they're a figment of Glasshouse's imagination.

old mcdonald:

Do you think that does and ewes actually have a brain so that they can know things? 

Certainly, they have no “brain” and they are reacting only instinctively. According to their maternal instinct the priority of taking care has  the last born lamb. In the mean time the first one is going away and getting another smell. When it comes back, it looks different (probably already dry), it smell different and, certainly, this couldn’t be her baby. You could see that the ewe is starting to beat the lamb only after she is smelling it, and this is confirming the hypothesis that in the most cases the rejecting reason is a foreign smell of the lamb. Therefore, avoiding the opportunity of the first born lamb to “catch” another smell would avoid the ewe’s rejection.  Best regards,Felician

 

Berbecul, a very interesting hypothesis, but I have known cases of a doe taking care of the first, dropping the second and totally ignoring it. Whilst I have had many more sheep than goats, I lambed "on the hill" in Northumberland and "in the paddock" in Australia and supervision of larger numbers meant some births were not witnessed so I am not prepared to say you are wrong regarding sheep.

Berbecul:

avoiding the opportunity of the first born lamb to “catch” another smell would avoid the ewe’s rejection

+1    Bodyshop rose hand cream = disaster.

Can sheep count?

Cows can

wnw, i brought a packet of clips home from nz, i cant remember what they were called.

go to crt.co.nz, and look for lambing supplies in the online shop.

they have "mothering up" spray and oil. amongst other things.

no sign of clips, maybe not made any more.

henarar:

Can sheep count?

Cows can

 

some better than others. or at least they know when they are missing a lamb which i guess is the same thing

 

I had a ewe a few years ago which had twins, one black and one white equal sizes but she wouldn't take the white one, determined to kill it and nothing would induce her to have it, she herself was black so did she think the white one "an alien" even though it smelt right, I don't know.  On the other hand I lately had a first timer that had a very large dead lamb which she stayed by, calling it and licking it for nearly 6 hours and then jumping the fence to follow it into the shed where she lay outside for another 12 hours until the lamb was disposed of and only then did she leave to rejoin the flock, daft or grieving who knows! 

Grieving

If we have a cow that loses a calf we always leave the calf with her for a bit