I understand that any areas under 1 ha/entitlement will not be paid for 2010.  I realise that this is a very small amount, but when SPS came in everyone was encouraged to register their land regardless.  The area was activated in 2009, so do we still have to complete and send in the application form this year and then transfer the entitlements in the coming year?  Presumably if we do not transfer the entitlements in the coming year then it is lost to the National Reserve. 

Is this correct?

Yes i'm afraid so you really shouldn't be claiming anyway, you don't need it do you? We larger claimers need all we can get, I have 2 mistresses and a moaning manager to pacify and belive me,if mistress number 2 isn't taken away for pampered weekend every month life becomes most uncomfortable.

 So please consider the needy before trying to claim.  I didn't know areas exist under a hectare, hardly worth bothering with sir, give it to your neighbour, must be more hassel than it's worth!

I do like a sense of humour, but when it comes to money, well it's different. I don't know about you over there, but we (Ireland) certainly claim for land under 1Ha. I have currently have 12 wheelbarrows filled, planted and claimed for as we speak.

Two mistresses is just plain greedy.

craman:

Bearing in mind that some farmers/landowners may being going through a second tier of errors in the ReMapping exercise now, and may go through third and fourth tiers of errors, and that it takes two months to turn round one set of queries on the ReMapping, what derogations are being considered by the RPA in the light of some SPS applicants being in possession of flawed maps in two or even four months time?

European regulations on SPS don't allow us a derogation to extend the deadline for submission of SPS application forms. Therefore farmers need to focus on submitting their application with the required data so we receive it by 17 May.   

Where necessary, farmers should adjust the areas on their form to match their land. If they have asked us to make changes (via an RMU1 or RLE1 form) but these have not been included on the form, farmers should make the changes and include a letter with their form to tell us that these changes have already been requested.  If they are asking for additional changes, they need to submit an RLE1 form with a sketch map or map showing the amendments they are asking for.

SPS 2010 team

bonnie:

 I understand that any areas under 1 ha/entitlement will not be paid for 2010.  I realise that this is a very small amount, but when SPS came in everyone was encouraged to register their land regardless.  The area was activated in 2009, so do we still have to complete and send in the application form this year and then transfer the entitlements in the coming year?  Presumably if we do not transfer the entitlements in the coming year then it is lost to the National Reserve. 

Is this correct?

5555

While the responses you’ve received about two mistresses sound interesting! - I thought you’d appreciate a response from RPA.

If your application is for less than one hectare you will not be paid on your entitlement(s) for 2010. As long as the entitlement was activated in 2009 it will have a use by date of 2011. You do not have to submit an application form in 2010. You will need to transfer the entitlement (or take on more land and entitlements) before 3 February 2011 to avoid your entitlement being lost to the National Reserve.

SPS 2010 Team

I am currently going through a second tier of map corrections with RLR. They promised these maps to be available by the end of March. They have not arrived. The necessity for the second set of maps is due to the maladministration on the RLR's side of an RMU1 submitted last year with regard to the first set of maps. My SPS forms contain several errors as a result, and instructions to add this, delete that, write this and enclose sketch maps indicates a management sytem that is floundering in its own mire of incompetence - particularly as regards its inability to train the administrative staff properly. We are now several years into this payment system and it should be running smoothly. It isn't, it's a mess.

I don't regard any of the above as being political or comment on policy. 

I'd like to ask "why is it that I asked for my Whole Farm Approach pin number to fill my SP5 out online at least 3 weeks ago and still have yet to receive it?

Nor have I received my paper forms yet!!

viewfromtheothersideofthefence:

I'd like to ask "why is it that I asked for my Whole Farm Approach pin number to fill my SP5 out online at least 3 weeks ago and still have yet to receive it?

Nor have I received my paper forms yet!!

Please accept our apologies for the delay in receiving your WFA pin number.

During March 2010, RPA issued PINs for the electronic channel service to all SPS registered customers who had not previously enrolled for this service.  The last batch of PIN letters was posted on 22 March.  If your PIN letter and your paper form have not arrived, they may have been lost in the post.  Please call our Customer Service Centre on 0845 603 7777 and request another PIN.  You might like to check at the same time that we have your correct current address details. 

Please be aware that when a new PIN is issued, the previous one is invalidated, so if the original PIN arrives in the mail before the new PIN, it will not work.

Regarding your paper forms, please could you also contact the Customer Service Centre on 0845 603 7777.

regards

SPS 2010 team

Ref Col C4 and RLE1 form - Please can you tell which parts of the RLE1 form I need to complete.  All my farms are in the English Area EOUT.  In many cases I find that there is an eligibility area in Col C4 when clearly there is no entitlement because for the instance the area is all woodland and has always been recorded as such.  I realize that don't activate the area in Col C9 but I need to correct the wrong information in Col C4.

On one farm all the permanent grassland has been deemed to be woodland so there is no entitlement recorded in col C4 - this is potentially more of problem because I will activate the area in col C9 which will be correct.

Dorsetjennifer  

This may win the prize for being the longest forum post ever. But it may be of help to some readers. The RPA has just issued updated guidance on maps and the SPS 2010 application:

Frequently Asked Questions:

RLR Mapping Update maps and the SPS 2010 application form

The origin of some of the information pre-printed on SPS application forms for 2010 and future years has changed. Field references (NG / OS numbers), total field size and the maximum area eligible for SPS will now come directly from the RLR database held by RPA. Some information will still be drawn from the SPS 2009 application.

1. Why is it important to have the field references (NG / OS numbers), total field size and the maximum area eligible for SPS information on my SPS 2010 application form?

This information is important as it will help us to identify your land parcels and will help to speed up the processing of your claim. You also need to make sure the ‘land use' code (column C8) and the ‘area to activate' (column C9) are correctly printed in green or entered in the boxes provided to claim SPS on those land parcels in 2010.

2. I have agreed my RLR Mapping Update maps. What information will be pre-printed on my SPS 2010 application form?

If you agreed with your first set of RLR maps, did not send in changes to your second set or did not reply to RPA, your SPS 2010 application form should be pre-printed with the same information that was supplied on the ‘agreed' maps. If your application form has not been pre-printed with the agreed information, amend the incorrect information so that your application form matches the current state of your land.

3. What if I do not have, or can not obtain, the most up-to-date RLR mapping update information?

If you do not have a set of RLR Mapping Update maps to refer to, please ensure that the NG field reference number corresponds to a grid reference within the land parcel. For assistance with estimating land parcel reference numbers, please see Annex A in the RLE1 Guidance booklet January 2010, www.rpa.gov.uk/RLE1.

Land areas will need to be estimated using the best information you have available. If you don't have the maximum area eligible for SPS from the Rural Land Register, you should deduct the area of any SPS permanent ineligible features from your total field size to give you the information for column c4.

Please note, if the land parcel has not been previously registered on the Rural Land Register, you will need to complete and return an RLE1 form with your SPS 2010 application form.

4. I received an RLR Mapping Update map, but did not ask for any changes to be made. I now wish  to amend the information contained in my 2010 SP5 field data sheet, and on my RLR maps. How should I proceed?

You should make the changes that are required to your SPS application form and submit an RLE1 and supporting maps with your application giving the necessary supporting information about your land parcels. (If you are only adding or deleting land parcels that you know have already been captured on the RLR, you do not need to submit an RLE1. Please see question 5 below to double-check whether or not this dispensation will apply in your situation.)

5.  I received an RLR Mapping Update map, submitted changes on an RMU1 and have received a second map confirming the changes. However, there are further changes that I need to make to the information pre-printed on my SPS 2010 field data sheet that I have not already told you about. How should I proceed?

Please make the changes that are required on your SPS application form. You need to complete an RLE1 form if you are:

• making permanent changes to field boundaries
• adding or deleting permanent ineligible features
• Adding land parcels that have not previously been registered on the RLR

and submit it with your application form to tell us about the changes.

If you are only adding or deleting land parcels that you know have already been captured on the RLR, you do not need to submit an RLE1 with your application form.

6. If I want to enter into UELS, ELS or want to renew my ELS agreement, can I submit this change on an RLE1 form with my SPS 2010 application form?

Yes, if your RLE1 relates to a Forestry Commission or Natural England application, you can submit it with your SPS 2010 application. You should write ‘Forestry Commission' or ‘Natural England' on the top of the front page of the RLE1 form. Please see section C of the RLE1 Guidance January 2010 booklet for more information.

7. I returned my confirmatory maps with an RMU/RLE1 form requesting additional changes to be made. How do I check and complete my SPS 2010 application form.

The changes may have been included on your SPS 2010 application form. Please:

use your previous set of maps, your 2009 application and/or the SPS 2010 Guidance to help you check whether the information on your SPS application form is correct, if the changes have not been included and/or you need to make changes, use the above mentioned resources to amend your application form so that it matches the current state of your land.

If you have sent RPA changes that are not reflected on your SPS application form, you do not need to submit these changes again but please send a covering letter titled ‘RLE1 mapping changes' with your application form, explaining clearly that you haven't received your maps and which fields have not been amended.

8. I returned changes to my first set of RLR Mapping Update maps and I have received maps confirming my changes from RPA but this updated information has not been pre-printed on my SPS 2010 application form. What do I need to do?

If  you have :

• sent us an RMU1 asking for changes to be made to your first set first set of RLR Mapping Update Maps, or
• sent us an  RMU1 or an RLE1 asking for further changes to be made to the confirming maps that we have already sent you in response to a first RMU1

and these are not  taken fully into account in your 2010 SP5 field data sheet, please make the required changes to your field data sheet and include a covering letter with your application referring us to your outstanding request for mapping changes.

9. I returned changes to my first set of RLR Mapping Update maps but I have not received RLR maps confirming my changes from RPA and this information has not been pre-printed on my SPS 2010 application form. What do I need to do?

If you need to complete your application before you have received your maps, we have published a check list on the SPS 2010 page on our web site that gives advice on how to proceed.

If you have received your SPS 2010 application form and it does not contain land details for some of your parcels or contains information that has not been updated as requested, please:

• add missing land information using your copy of the RLE1 or RMU1 that you sent to RPA and/or the SPS 2010 or RLE1 Guidance to help you estimate the relevant areas and field reference numbers. If you did not make a copy of your RMU1 or RLE1 form, please see question H13, and/or
• amend incorrect field reference numbers and areas that have been pre-printed on your SPS application form so that they match the current state of your land and the amendments you submitted on your RLE1 or RMU1 form.

If you have already sent RPA changes (via an RLE1 form or RMU1 form) that are not reflected on your SPS application form, you do not need to submit these changes again but please send a covering letter titled ‘RLE1 mapping changes' with your application form, explaining clearly that you haven't received your maps and which fields have not been amended.

10. I returned changes to my first set of RLR Mapping Update maps which have been pre-printed on my SPS 2010 application form, but I have not received RLR maps confirming my changes from RPA. Will I receive these confirmatory maps before the application deadline?

You should receive a copy of your confirmatory RLR maps shortly after you receive your SPS 2010 application form. If your maps do not arrive before the end of April, please check the information that has been pre-printed on your SPS application form using a copy of the RLE1 or RMU1 that you sent to RPA, any previous RLR maps and the SPS 2010 Guidance to help you.

11. I returned changes to my first or confirmatory set of RLR Mapping Update maps but the updated maps that I have been sent do not include some or all of these changes.  What do I do?

As  you have already sent us an RMU1 or RLE1 form asking for changes to be made to your first or confirmatory  set of RLR Mapping Update Maps, please make the required changes to the field data sheets on your SPS application form and include a covering letter with your application referring us to your outstanding request for mapping changes.

If the information that has been printed on your SPS application form is correct, please include a covering letter with your SPS application form explaining what changes have not been made to your maps.

12. I have already submitted my SPS 2010 application form but have just received my confirmatory maps. Can I still make changes?

If you receive your confirmatory maps after you have submitted your SPS 2010 application form, you can make changes to your application and resubmit until 17 May 2010 without penalty.

As long as we have received your application form before 17 May, you can notify us of any amendments to land parcels or add new land parcels by midnight on 1 June without penalty. These are accepted under the provisions to withdraw and resubmit part of your application at any time and, to be able to make amendments without incurring penalties if received in writing by midnight on 1 June 2010.

You may find this easier to do if you submit your application electronically. See Question 13 for further information on amending applications.

13. What amendments can I make to my land parcels up to 1 June?

As long as we have received your application form before 17 May, you can notify us of any amendments to land parcels or add new land parcels by midnight on 1 June without penalty. These are accepted under the provisions to withdraw and resubmit part of your application at any time and, to be able to make amendments without incurring penalties if received in writing by midnight on 1 June 2010.

If we receive your amendments after 1 June 2010 and before midnight on 11 June, we will reduce payments relating to the parcels in question by 1% for each working day the amendments are late. We cannot accept amendments to increase your claim after midnight on 11 June.

If we've already told you about a mistake in your application, or you've been told about an inspection that later reveals mistakes, then you can't amend details for the parcels of land concerned. This includes mistakes found by Natural England or by the Forestry Commission when cross checking your Single Payment Scheme information against their agreement details.

14. I returned changes to my RLR Mapping Update maps but I have not received maps confirming these changes from RPA and I did not make a copy of the RMU1/RLE1 form and/or sketch map I submitted. How do I check and complete my SPS 2010 application form?

The changes may have been included on your SPS 2010 application form. Please:

use your previous set of maps, your 2009 application and/or the SPS 2010 Guidance to help you check whether the information on your SPS application form is correct,

if the changes have not been included and/or you need to make changes, use the above mentioned resources to amend your application form so that it matches the current state of your land.

If you have sent RPA changes that are not reflected on your SPS application form, you do not need to submit these changes again but please send a covering letter titled ‘RLE1 mapping changes' with your application form, explaining clearly that you haven't received your maps and which fields have not been amended.

15. I did not correctly mark up all the SPS permanent ineligible features on my maps, what do I need to do on the SPS 2010 application form?

If you have received your SPS 2010 application form and you need to add SPS permanent ineligible features, please:

• amend the maximum area eligible for SPS that has been pre-printed on your SPS application form so that they match the current state of your land,
• phone the Customer Service Centre on 0845 603 7777 as soon as possible and request an RLE1 (Requests for Changes to the Rural Land Register and/or the Transfer of Entitlements) form. This form can now also be printed from our website; www.rpa.gov.uk/RLE1.
• Mark the changes on your maps and fill in your RLE1 form so they match the current state of your land, send the RLE1 form and amended maps back to RPA at the same time as your SPS application form.

16. My farm went through a physical or remote sensing inspection in 2009 and I have just received my new RLR maps, incorporating the results of the mapping update exercise and the inspection. I have also received my SPS 2010 application form. How should I proceed if I want to make changes to my maps and field data sheet?

Please do not make changes that contradict specific inspection findings that you have agreed with us. Other changes you wish to make should be notified as above. If you believe that your maps do not correctly reflect the results of your inspection, please contact the Customer Service Centre on 0845 603 777, who will be able to advise you.

Any amendments that disagree with the inspection findings may cause delays to the validation and payment of your claim. Changes that have occurred since the inspection findings, for example a new permanent boundary, would not cause the same issue.

17. I was inspected in 2009 and I have not received any RLR Mapping Update maps from RPA. What information will be printed on my SPS 2010 application form?

If you are still in the process of agreeing your inspection findings with RPA, your SPS 2010 application form field data sheets will be pre-printed with the most recent information on the RLR, which may not take into account any inspection findings. If your latest maps do not arrive before the SPS 2010 application form submission deadline (17 May), please use your inspection findings report, any maps from previous years and/or the SPS 2010 Guidance to help you update the information that has been pre-printed on your SPS application form. Please also send a covering letter titled ‘RLE1 mapping changes' with your application form, explaining clearly which fields you have amended.

18. I have never received any RLR Mapping Update maps and I need to amend the information contained in my 2010 SP5 field data sheet. How should I proceed?

If your holding has been inspected, please see question 17.

If your holding has not been inspected during 2009 and you have not received any maps from RPA, please call our Customer Service Centre immediately on 0845 603 7777. We will send you the up to date RLR maps for your holding and you should use this information to amend your SPS application.

If your maps do not arrive before the end of April, please check the information that has been pre-printed on your SPS application form using any previous RLR maps and the SPS 2010 Guidance to help you.

If you receive your confirmatory maps after you have submitted your SPS 2010 application form, you can make changes to your application and resubmit until 17 May 2010. You can make certain changes without penalty up until 1 June. Assuming your application form was received by 17 May, you can notify us of any amendments to land parcels or add new land parcels up until midnight on 1 June without penalty. These are accepted under the provisions to withdraw and resubmit part of your application at any time and, to be able to make amendments without incurring penalties if received in writing by midnight on 1 June 2010.

You may find this easier to do if you submit your application electronically. See Question 12 for further information on amending applications.

19.        How can I get an RLE1 form from to make the changes? 

You can get an RLE1 form from:

• one of our drop-in centres; [LINK]
• print it from our website; [LINK] and
• telephoning us to ask for one on 0845 603 7777.

20.        How can I get a field data continuation sheet to add more land parcels to my application? 

You can get a field data continuation sheet from:

• one of our drop-in centres; [LINK] or by
• telephoning us to ask for one on 0845 603 7777.

21. Is there a deadline for submitting an RLE1 form?

For entitlement transfers to be effective for the 2009 scheme year, the deadline for us to receive your RLE1 form was 4 April 2010 (Easter Sunday). Any entitlement transfers received after 4 April will be for the 2011 scheme year.

For permanent boundary changes or other amendments to the information shown on your confirmatory RLR maps, you may find it is easier to submit the RLE1 with your SPS 2010 application form. It must be submitted by 1 June at the latest where the 2010 SPS application form has been submitted by 17 May submission deadline to avoid late application penalties being applied. For further information on deadlines, please refer to the SPS Handbook for England 2010.

22. What address do I use if I need to send in an RLE1 form to make changes to my maps?

If you need to submit an RLE1 form, please send it to the following address:

Rural Payments Agency

PO Box 300,

Sheffield

S95 1AA

You can include your RLE1 form and/or covering letter in the envelope with your SPS application form which you should post to the above address or deliver them by-hand to one of our drop-in centres by 17 May 2010 to avoid late application penalties.

If you submit your SPS application using SPS Online, please post your RLE1 form and/or covering letter to the above address.

Contact information:

If you cannot find the answer to your question here, then please ring the Customer Service Centre on 0845 603 7777.  If your enquiry is not urgent please e-mail us at csc@rpa.gsi.gov.uk  Normal CSC Opening hours: Monday to Friday 8.30am - 5.00pm (Closed weekends and bank holidays)

Hi, Given that the smallest area i can deduct for ineligible areas is 0.01ha which is 100sq m, how do i account for small areas  e.g. a tree in field say 4sq m or an old concrete base 20 sq m

thank you

I don't believe you do need to deduct anything in this situation - you are competing the form to the nearest 0.01 ha. Only if the area is greater than 0.005ha (50 sq m) would you need to make a deduction.  No doubt one of the RPA team will reply if I am wrong

Cheers Wickedwilly ( i used to be )

But the forms only allow to 2 decimal places, not your 3 as in your 0.005

So do i assume you round down to the nearest 0.01, not round up?

thank you

Yes but how do you fill in your form if you have no maps?

dorsetjennifer:

Ref Col C4 and RLE1 form - Please can you tell which parts of the RLE1 form I need to complete.  All my farms are in the English Area EOUT.  In many cases I find that there is an eligibility area in Col C4 when clearly there is no entitlement because for the instance the area is all woodland and has always been recorded as such.  I realize that don't activate the area in Col C9 but I need to correct the wrong information in Col C4.

On one farm all the permanent grassland has been deemed to be woodland so there is no entitlement recorded in col C4 - this is potentially more of problem because I will activate the area in col C9 which will be correct.

Dorsetjennifer  

 

Dear Dorsetjennifer,

I’m sorry, but we’re not quite clear on what you are asking. Please let us know if the text below doesn’t answer your query.

Where the area in C4 does not accurately reflect the maximum area eligible for SPS for the parcel you should correct it using the boxes provided. Where your maps match the area pre-printed (and are therefore incorrect) you will need to complete and return an RLE1 form. Alternatively, if you have already submitted an RMU1 or RLE1 form to make this change then you can just include a covering letter to explain that you have done this and what changes are still outstanding.

Where you need to add, remove or change an SPS ineligible feature on the RLE1 form please follow the guidance supplied on pages 56 – 60) in the latest edition (Version 3.0 - January 2010) of the RLE1 guidance. This can be obtained by calling the CSC on 0845 603 7777, from a drop-in centre or on our website at www.rpa.gov.uk/RLE1.

SPS 2010 Team

 

 

rogereaston1:

Yes but how do you fill in your form if you have no maps?

As I write the SP5 submission deadline is one month away and still I have no 2009 maps.  Neither do 8,000+ other claimants.  The remapping exercise was always going to be pointless, but once you factor in the RPA’s poor track record on project management it has ended up being another disaster on a monumental scale.  I only hope that Jim Fitzpatrick and Tony Cooper will be big enough to hold up their hands and admit that they have seriously messed up – again - and move swiftly to Plan B.  I fear however, that they are too arrogant to have even formulated a Plan B.They should have done this in February when it was clearly evident to anyone that has ever had the slightest contact with the RPA that there was no way on earth they would be able to process all claimants’ maps by 17 May 2010, let alone 17 April or 31 March!  The side show of disasters - defective helplines, lack of PIN numbers, wrongly addressed envelopes and errors on printed forms SP5 further confirms that they have learnt nothing over the last 5 years and are now descending full throttle in a downward spiral of incompetence.The problem now is that having already issued forms SP5 and some new maps we are caught in a two tier system. Those of us who have no maps must be allowed to submit our SP5 based on the same mapping information that we used last year.  These claims will now have to be dealt with manually outside the new RLR system.  Rather than adopting their usual approach of leaving the difficult stuff until last the RPA must prioritise the processing of these claims.My concern is that whatever happens we shall find the 30 June 2011 deadline looming with no sign of a payment.  I would therefore urge the NFU, TFA and CLA to make very strong representations to the RPA and insist on a partial payment for 2010.  Every claimant whose claim has not been fully processed and approved by 1 December should receive a payment based on 80% of the value of their entitlements submitted on their 2010 claim.  It’s not rocket science is it?No doubt on 7 May the prospective Cabinet Ministers for the new Government will be jostling in line awaiting the announcement of posts with trepidation and hoping and praying that they are not last in the queue and end up at DEFRA!

 

In the unlikely event that a farmer hasn't had maps in time to submit an application by 17 May, our advice is to use the FAQS, we've published on the RPA website and any previous maps and/or Inspection reports. The FAQs are also published here on the forum too.

To help communicate the options farmers have, we're publishing a full page Information Note with guidance in Farmers Weekly and Farmers Guardian for the next two weeks and we've sent letters containing additional guidance and a checklist to any farmer who wasn't sent maps by the end of March.

We appreciate your concern over 2010 payments but we've shown continual improvements over the last few years in paying more farmers earlier in the payment window and have already published our payment targets for 2010. We will be working hard to meet these targets which are 85% of claimants under the 2010 scheme to be paid  by 31 December 2010 and 95% by monetary value of valid 2010  claims by 31 March 2011.  

Regards

SPS 2010 team

I'm sorry Caroline but you just don't get it do you? Have you ever filled in an SP5?

When are the RPA going to recognise that they are supposed to supply a competent level of customer service?  I have 2 sbi with 2 sets of problem maps.  My maps were issued dated 8 Oct 2009. They were held back by Newmarket office until 20 Nov when someone visited me to assist in completing them.  I gave them back to him on 23 Nov all completed with 46 corrections. I received a card from Newcastle acknowledging receipt mid January 2010 and have heard nothing since.

My SP5 / online version is preprinted qith a load of completely unrecognisable innformation, including at least one entry which is a completely random grid number and several fields with areas of less than 1 ha so it is quite frankly rubbish.

It is just not possible to complete an sp5 claim with 120 fields some very complicated border issues without seeing a revised set of maps.  Why can you not understand this? How am I supposed to claim a field where it should have been combined as one field but you have recorded it as to and in addition the borders are wrong.  I do not have a valid field parcel number, nor do I have a revised field area.  What exactly am I supposed to put on my SP5. If I go back to using my pre 2009 maps, these will be at odds with other farmers maps.  Where you havve decided that there is no permanent field boundary I will be claiming an area using different parcel reference to our neighbours and the computer will say NO!!

It is certainly not acceptable to be given only 2 weeks to do so and by the implication of your reply above you obviously think it is acceptable for maps to be sent out right up until the deadline? Can you imagine how much time it takes to reconcile this type of information back to the previous information and then ensure it is all correctly entered on SP5 without making a mistake in addition to submittng sketch maps for all the complicated split fields?  We do have a life and a job to do as well - we are farmers!!

I think you also have an incredible nerve given the RPA track record to imply that not getting maps by 17 May is an unlikely event!!! How many staff have you got working on maps? How many man hours are there between now and 30 APRIL TO DEAL WITH 8,000 SETS OF MAPS?

You can issue as many guidance notes and information sheets and check lists as you like but it will not alter the fact that it is completely unaccepatble to expect farmers to complete an sp5 without any maps.

You promised that all maps would be out by end Feb before SP5 forms, then you said 31 March, then you said 17 April and now you are saying 30 April, but really meaning 17 May.  I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. 

We are once again in the situation where the RPA's incompetence has been extremely prejudicial to a subgroup of claimants through no fault of their own.  This is not fair and it is not an acceptable level of customer service.

rogereaston1:

I'm sorry Caroline but you just don't get it do you? Have you ever filled in an SP5?

When are the RPA going to recognise that they are supposed to supply a competent level of customer service?  I have 2 sbi with 2 sets of problem maps.  My maps were issued dated 8 Oct 2009. They were held back by Newmarket office until 20 Nov when someone visited me to assist in completing them.  I gave them back to him on 23 Nov all completed with 46 corrections. I received a card from Newcastle acknowledging receipt mid January 2010 and have heard nothing since.

My SP5 / online version is preprinted qith a load of completely unrecognisable innformation, including at least one entry which is a completely random grid number and several fields with areas of less than 1 ha so it is quite frankly rubbish.

It is just not possible to complete an sp5 claim with 120 fields some very complicated border issues without seeing a revised set of maps.  Why can you not understand this? How am I supposed to claim a field where it should have been combined as one field but you have recorded it as to and in addition the borders are wrong.  I do not have a valid field parcel number, nor do I have a revised field area.  What exactly am I supposed to put on my SP5. If I go back to using my pre 2009 maps, these will be at odds with other farmers maps.  Where you havve decided that there is no permanent field boundary I will be claiming an area using different parcel reference to our neighbours and the computer will say NO!!

It is certainly not acceptable to be given only 2 weeks to do so and by the implication of your reply above you obviously think it is acceptable for maps to be sent out right up until the deadline? Can you imagine how much time it takes to reconcile this type of information back to the previous information and then ensure it is all correctly entered on SP5 without making a mistake in addition to submittng sketch maps for all the complicated split fields?  We do have a life and a job to do as well - we are farmers!!

I think you also have an incredible nerve given the RPA track record to imply that not getting maps by 17 May is an unlikely event!!! How many staff have you got working on maps? How many man hours are there between now and 30 APRIL TO DEAL WITH 8,000 SETS OF MAPS?

You can issue as many guidance notes and information sheets and check lists as you like but it will not alter the fact that it is completely unaccepatble to expect farmers to complete an sp5 without any maps.

You promised that all maps would be out by end Feb before SP5 forms, then you said 31 March, then you said 17 April and now you are saying 30 April, but really meaning 17 May.  I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. 

We are once again in the situation where the RPA's incompetence has been extremely prejudicial to a subgroup of claimants through no fault of their own.  This is not fair and it is not an acceptable level of customer service.

Roger - I totally understand your frustation and you make valid points. However, we shouldn't point the finger at Caroline - or any of the other RPA team members contributing to this thread. Your comments are probably something that they are not in a position to answer. That said, I am sure they will feed back your comments to the appropriate person.

rogereaston1:

My SP5 / online version is preprinted qith a load of completely unrecognisable innformation, including at least one entry which is a completely random grid number and several fields with areas of less than 1 ha so it is quite frankly rubbish.

It is just not possible to complete an sp5 claim with 120 fields some very complicated border issues without seeing a revised set of maps.  Why can you not understand this? How am I supposed to claim a field where it should have been combined as one field but you have recorded it as to and in addition the borders are wrong.  I do not have a valid field parcel number, nor do I have a revised field area.  What exactly am I supposed to put on my SP5. If I go back to using my pre 2009 maps, these will be at odds with other farmers maps.  Where you havve decided that there is no permanent field boundary I will be claiming an area using different parcel reference to our neighbours and the computer will say NO!!

We're in a similar situation as yourself - no revised maps & SP5 form preprinted with some very strange, weird & unrecognisable fields - including a 45h field of our neighbours! I took a copy of our RMU1 before submitting it, however since it just shows proposed boundary changes it is of little use to me for determining the actual revised sizes of these fields.

I rang the RLR helpline (gave up waiting for the callback & decided the next day to sit & wait it out - btw. my callback call came 2 days later!)

After explaining the situation, a lovely young man from RLR Workington sent me an email with a copy of our 'latest' maps ...

The maps are from our live toolkit which is constantly updating if there is any problems with the maps and you want to make changes then you will have to make changes to the maps and a blank RLE1 form stating what changes are required available from our website ( www.rpa.gov.uk ) also the SP5 2010 claim form.

These maps appear to already have most of the changes on them & so I'm completing a 'draft' of our SP5 form with these details (excluding the neighbour's 45h field!) As there is the possibility of these details being updated on the live toolkit maps, I think I'll request another copy nearer to the May 17th deadline (if our finalised maps haven't arrived by then!) & submit an 'as near as dammit' SP5 form ... & cross my fingers!

It is all an extremely frustrating, annoying & frustrating experience.

Btw. Hello FWi, long time no post! 

5555:

Cheers Wickedwilly ( i used to be )

But the forms only allow to 2 decimal places, not your 3 as in your 0.005

So do i assume you round down to the nearest 0.01, not round up?

thank you

Thank you for your reply. That's clear now.

Last question (have emailed this to you but no reply) In the handbook page 86 says If changes made to Col 4 send a sketch map.  Given that I have returned my maps with the ineligible areas marked on, but have not recieved them back, will these returned maps do as 'sketch maps'? job done?

The general consensus appears to be that maps will not be returned in time and the thing to do is measure areas to be deducted as best we can but to send in a cover note saying that's what we have done? is there a text box on the final submit page (online submission) for such comments or is it necessary to post separate letter?

 Thank you

Well Isabel I think you have just about hit the nail on the head.  Who is the appropriate person? No one at the RPA seems to be accountable - it is always someone else's fault.  If Caroline doesn't want to be addressed directly then she shouldn't put her name to it?  And it is precisely the point I am making, by and large the staff at the RPA make sympathetic noises on the surface but they cannot put themselves in our shoes and understand just exactlt the levels of stress and distress this is causing.  I have read the article on page 6 of FW today and have taken Steve Pearce at his word. 

As he does not want any customers to be distressed I telephoned the RPA as he instructed and to speak to him personally and let him know just what a distressed state I am in.  Predictably 18 minutes later when they answered the phone he was not available for me to speak to.  I have left a message for him to telephone me back. I am not holding my breath.

I can't sleep - I keep waking  up at 3am and then spend the next 3 hours churning it over. There is no point in me doing anything until I get some final maps, as otherwise it will be a waste of effort.  If we do get maps by 1 May and I can't say I'm confident we will - the first 16 days of May are going to be a complete nightmare.  Even if we do get them the chances are that they will not have been worked on properly to compeltion and will be full of problems.  I really wanted to speak to Mr Pearce to suggest that they make the most of modern technology and email the maps out in adobe so that at least we can have them the minute that they are "finished".  I am terrified that I am going to get something wrong on Sp5 and then I shall spend the remainder of the year worrying if I have messed it up and we won't get paid or we shall get penalised.  Whatever the case I shall end up completing the claim conservatively and so we shall miss out financially even if its only a few hundred quid.

And - for the record my name is Sarah not Roger - he is out in the fields 15 hours a day planting the potatoes - lucky b***er!!

Hi Sarah,

I think I inadvertantly did probably hit the nail on the head - finding someone to listen and be accountable is near impossible in these big organisations. 

I just always feel that the criticism is best aimed at the management, and by that I probably include DEFRA. When we set up this thread with the RPA it was with the best of intentions - so people could say "which code do I use" and "do I tick this box". However, I realise that many people have much more complex questions than we hoped at this point.

Hang in there - and I hope you get your return call.

 Isabel

What would be good Isabel, would be to have a down to earth interview (or even better forum) with one of the Management Team addressing many of the points raised in this forum - but I expect that you would not be able to get anyone to do this because I don't think the decision/rule makers have any idea of what it's like at ground level - either for the farmers or for the RPA staff who have to try and answer their questions.

I have bought 6 stints on our common along with 9.9 entitlements just recently. I have had submitted an RLE1 form . How do I go about filling this information onto the form as in the past its preprinted with cattle plus surplus grazing .but the surplus grazing this year could be different depending the number of graziers claiming because of past errors?