I know some people are worried about producers getting involved in the next series of Kill it, Cook it, Eat it because this time they will be focusing on milk-fed lambs and veal calves etc which is even more emotive than the cattle and sheep they slaughtered last time.

But I put this up because - if the series is to run - it needs some level-headed, sensible types in the audience and the production team is looking for volunteers. Follow the link to Food For Thought for details.

Just for clarity, what do they mean by milk fed lambs? All ours get milk direct from the ewe, do they mean first draw lambs or is there a specialist milk only diet I have missed somewhere?

I will venture a guess I will be in the minority on this one. I don't have a clue about this program other than what I have read, but I really doubt it is a great idea to have a TV show that features the slaughter process.  I take pigs to our local locker on a regular basis, and I am not bothered by the process but I am not a 8 or 9 year old child.  I raise cattle and pigs for a living, and I am a huge consumer of meat.  In the end though, when you butcher you kill an animal.  If that is all you show, if you don't show how they are raised, and how much work the farmer does to make the life of the animal decent, and if you don't show that wild animals and indeed people seldom die peacefully in their sleep, you simply risk turning young people way from eating meat.  I am sure a great brigade of people will answer that people need exposed to slaughtering, I would say that isn't a bet I want to take.  Sure, slaughterhouses( I can't spell the term you use, and can barely say it) are generally and should always be humane, and nothing to be ashamed of.  But a TV show that highlights this process will probably do the meat industry more harm than good.  Just cook it and eat it, leave the kill it part out. 

 By the way, I use to teach 10 year olds, I have a pretty good idea how they think, and I for sure don't want to see them turned off of meat. 

I have to disagree with you on this one Isabel. The last programs were relevant in that they illustrated the process behind all sources of meat. This series aims to concentrate on a very small section of the market and I cannot believe, however well balanced the audience, they won't play the 'killing baby animals'  card.

I would advise both producers and any would-be participants to have nothing to do with this. At best they will have no programs to make but if they do go ahead I do not think it will be constructive to give them any element of  respectability.

If they wish to make a controversial program about animal slaughter why don't they look at halal and kosher?

Far too political for the BBC I suspect.   

Excellent post hareley farmer.  I can't help but think somewhere in the background of this show PETA lurks. 

I just did a search for this show, if you think that it is going to do the meat side of agriculture any good, read some of the comments about the show.  I am going with my original gut feeling this program is a pretty clever product of the veggie and PETA brigade. 

I'm torn - I think last time round we feared it was going to be a disaster and it wasn't. There was lots of positive feedback and I think most people agreed that the production team handled it very well.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2007/03/08/102156/farmers-voice-their-support-for-kill-it-cook-it-eat.html

 But I do agree with hareley farmer's point that the baby animal card might be a problem. I might see if we can get someone from the company to respond.

Regards,

Isabel

Isabel Davies:

But I do agree with hareley farmer's point that the baby animal card might be a problem. I might see if we can get someone from the company to respond.

 

I've just sent an e-mail to one of the researchers inviting her to respond. I can't promise she will but fingers crossed...

Thanks for the reply.

 

Regards,

 

Isabel

I am a bit worrried by the line which says:

"The series does not set out to be sensational, it will simply reflect what happens normally in the food industry - albeit for a niche market".

In one sentance they are implying that they are looking at what is normal in the food industry, and at the same time admitting that it is for a niche market. I worry that the audience will be confused by what is 'normal' and the topic chosen (young animals) has been chose specifically because it is the potentially 'sensational' part of the market. 

kill it cook it eat it:

The production team working on the BBC programme Kill It Cook It Eat It, is aware that some people are worried about the content of our second series.  In it, we are slaughtering young animals - milk-fed lamb, suckling pig, kid goat and veal calves.  The programmes will undoubtedly stimulate intense debate as we tackle some highly sensitive issues.  The aim is to explore the self-imposed boundaries we put in place when we eat meat and where we draw the line, and why. We will also explore different meat-eating habits and attitudes in other countries where meat from younger animals is much more commonplace.

 The series does not set out to be sensational, it will simply reflect what happens normally in the food industry - albeit for a niche market. These small animals are reared, slaughtered and eaten in the UK and it is important that the information surrounding these processes is made widely available just as it was in the first series.  We will present this information in a clear and straightforward way and allow consumers to form their own opinions and make their own decisions.  The last series of Kill It Cook It Eat It was successful in terms of bringing major questions about the meat industry in a thought-provoking and responsible manner to a young audience.  This series aims to build on that success by exploring the more contentious and divisive issue surrounding the killing and consumption of young animals.

 

Just in case any of you were in doubt. This reply is from the production company.

What about including some footage of other countries, how they rear their animals, how they are slaughtered ,and then brought into this country,the ones seen in tesco with the tractor label on them,cos that is sure not british meat,(i was told this by a tesco buyer), i wonder if people would then realise what strict controls us british farmers adhere to,because british people are eating foreign meat as much as british meat,the full picture should be shown. im sure people would then realise british meat is best.

Has anyone applied to be in the audience?

Does anyone know when this is going to be shown?! All BBC stuff says Winter 2007...Isabel I don't suppose you could use your magic journalistic powers and find out for us please?!!!

 I have a very good reason for wanting to watch it!!

I would be very keen for this production company to show the prcess of Halal slaughter. Are there any plans for this to be a topic for the show in the future? And as one or two others have said, it would be interesting to see the meat rearing and production process in other countries, like Brazil, who import their poruducts into the uk as a comparison.

 

Sounds good! I think there should be a type of programme like this, but to educate teenagers (and some adults) about there food. May be like a challenege type thing but on the kill it cook it eat it basis that they have to do that. Lots of people at my school are vegeterian but they only decide to do this as they see some documentary on how intensively produced hens are reared.. they dont see how good free range birds etc are done and what a good life they have!!!

Halal was done by Landward a while back, it was very interesting as it followed the process from the farm right to the consumer.

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/outdoors/programmes/landward/

It might be in the archive.

 

SDM:

Does anyone know when this is going to be shown?! All BBC stuff says Winter 2007...Isabel I don't suppose you could use your magic journalistic powers and find out for us please?!!!

 I have a very good reason for wanting to watch it!!

I've just emailed the production company to see what they can tell me. I'll let you know when I get a reply.

 

I have got to say that I can not believe anyone can call the killing of an animal, ANY animal for the sake of "shock" TV ratings in any way shape or form entertainment.

Yes, we all know that animals are raised and the killed as part of the food chain - thats a fact of life but does it have to be entertainment?

 I can not see this program doing the farming world any favours - most of the non-country living population think of country life as riding ponys and blasting the hell out of any thing that moves with a 12 gage. you and I know its far from the truth but it's how the general public percieve things that really matters.

I genuinely believe that british farming needs some GOOD press and a total image makeover in the eyes of Joe public. Like it or not, accept it or disregard it but the over whelming picture that I get when talking to people outside of the industry (and yes I do mean townfolk), they seem to have a unwarrented and unfair image of farming - this needs to be addressed if our industry is going to survive and move forward with the public and not fal behind as we seem to be doing.

This kind of program does nothing to promote a good image to the general public and represents another example of the general dumbing down of shock TV such as killing animals and violence et el. Kids today are growing up thinking violence, cruelty to animals and disrespecting anyone and anything because WE tell them its OK to do so because we continue to allow this kind of program to be made. The BBC have a obligation by way of thier public charter to produce programs for the greater good of the general public - well, I am a menber of "the general public" and I say that this program is not what I pay my TV licence for. Where are the programs that reflect our true way of life, country matters and Farming related items. I'll tell you where - they are long since binned only to be replaced by programs like this.

I think it's disgusting and immoral. I am afraid I believe in kill only when needed for food not for the spectical of scaring every 8 year old (and most townfolk).

I said it before, and Countryman says it better than I did.  I can't for one minute imagine showing the slaughter process for entertainment purposes will do the meat industry and animal farming any good at all.  I routinely take pigs to the local butcher, and I watch the butchering process.  I would not take a child to see it however.  Believe me, the producers of this program are not in it to "enlighten" the British public, they are in it to make a buck, well, a pound in this case.  Anyone who thinks this is a good thing is "daft" as I believe you would say. 

Although I am not always the first to support a buy British only logo simply because it is British, I think welshgal has hit the nail on the head, run a comparison with elsewhere and see what the result is. There are a lot of things that are good in the UK but too much inward-looking thinking these days seems to produce the result that everything is bad. I am never sure how Britain has gone from being a globally-focused nation to this in such a few years.

An earlier posting asked about milk-fed lambs. I am guessing but it probably reflects the practice of killing lambs at say 4/5 weeks. It is part of a system that produces a 'product' for Easter and then allows the milk to go for cheese. I know it is common here and I suspect in other countries that use a lot of fresh traditional cheese. Personally I think it is a waste of a lamb as the carcass is worthless, although as an Easter tradition it sells well - it is pink and flavourless and I refuse to have lamb at Easter here (I plan to start a flock of Hampshires shortly and will try to lamb a few in December to have some proper Easter lamb for home). Milk-fed beef is also traditional in the villages because they do not have the resources to produce winter feed and to grow them on. Consequently nobody knows what decent lamb or beef tastes like. We are trying to educate them. I even hear that there is an initiative to sell British beef here!

The conundrum in this is that the programme may focus on British production of what in the UK are niche products. Elsewhere they are not so niche but in those cases they are traditional. For some reason they then get away with them because they are such. Here I consider that the sheep system is abusive in several ways; killing tiny lambs, keeping ewes outside in extreme temperatures with little or no food, destroying peoples' hay crops by illegally grazing their land in winter and, although I have not verified this by asking for evidence, I suspect using child labour of Roma origin to keep the costs down. Despite these there are environmental-type organisations actively seeking to preserve these systems.

Hence, I suspect that if these systems operate in the UK, the conditions for man and beast are far better than elsewhere.

We don't eat much milkfed lamb in this country as it is mainly a pryonese (spelling), Greek and Spanish thing because they don't have the grass we do to finish the lamb. The carcass obviously weighs lighter but the meat can claim a premium and is worth twice that of normal lamb so there is some room for people to diversify if they wish. It is posh nosh and really doesnt taste any nice than grassfed lamb!

The Second series is going to be shown in the second week of January all week, covering, Kid Goats, Piglets, Veal, and Milk fed lambs BBC3. I will try and update this with the full schedule!!

KF. To address a comment in an earlier reply, In English it is quite often the case that there are two words for the same thing. One being derived from the Germanic tongue and the other from French. Thus Slaughterhouse and Abbatoir.

Traditionally, the Germanic based word was the one least favoured by the educated and ruling classes.

I too cannot see how a programme showing the killing of an animal will do anything useful for stock farmers. It will probably help the veggie cause and this may explain why the programme will be broadcast.

Like many of you, I kill animals for food or pest control. I do not derive any pleasure from the killing but I do get satisfaction when I do the job cleanly and quickly.

I cannot see how watching the act of killing on TV does anything for the viewer except to distance their minds yet further from the process of life and death. It will do this by allowing them to justify forming an opinion, but without any personal emotional INVOLVEMENT in the act itself. It is the classic case of voyeurism which purports to reality but, as research and common sense has shown, is a de-humanising substitute for reality.