In next week's edition of Farmers Weekly our resident columnist Matthew Naylor is getting a bit controversial. Brace yourselves...

Matthew uses his latest column to voice his support for regulation, arguing that red tape is a necessary part of the profession. I quote:

"There is a certain type of farmer for whom "red tape" is a euphemism for normal business administration. These are farmers who operate without a desk or a filing cabinet. They put the bills behind the toaster in the kitchen and put the SFP form in their sock drawer. These people should not be allowed to blissfully carry on in that muddle just because DEFRA needs to save a few quid.

Farming is not a special case anymore; we cannot expect to be exempt from the ordinary standards upheld by other industries. Other sectors are required to keep records, to prove their ability to perform their work safely and to demonstrate that they are operating within the law. It is not unreasonable to expect the same from a primary food industry."

What do you reckon - does he have a point?

 The campaign for cutting red tape has not asked for all regulation to be scrapped. There has been recognition by the authorities and the majority of farmers that there are way too many silly and onerous regulations that do not help the consumer and place too much stress on the farmer. It is disappointing that a bloke who has a column in the Farmers Weekly chooses to highlight the worst case farmers rather than the vast majority who run their businesses to a high standard.   It is going to be a struggle to reduce red tape with blokes like Mathew spouting crap in the farming press.

Whenever I buy farm produce in the supermarket, I always go to customer services and say "I hope the farmer is up to speed with his paperwork, because if not, I'm taking my custom elsewhere."

I have held back from the red tape debate because I'm not sure where it is.

 We have very comprehensive legislation, statutes, regulations and EC Directives with which we must comply. We then have Farm Assurance by courtesy of the NFU which largely duplicates items aforementioned. In 2008 my non assured wheat went into Assured only processors - might happen again this year and certainly in the future as world supplies vary, perhaps more frequently than recently.

We have NROSO by courtesy of the NFU which is a laughable game - all that is needed is to pass the appropriate test and attend a regional refresher each year, job done.

The little red tractor game has gone through choppy seas because UK processors and retailers decided to sail as close to the wind as they could in describing the source of LRT labelled produce, thus discrediting the scheme. It can be replaced simply by displaying a Union Flag on produce wholly and unequivocally originating in the UK and alkso processed in the UK. LRT has done little for farmers bank balances - the flag won't necessarily help but it is a fresh start. Not necessarily red tape though as far as farmers are concerned but misrepresentation under the LRT logo does not help our image.

DEFRA - this is where the axe should fall. It employs the otherwise unemployable. But,unfortunately, the NFU and CLA are so busy "working in partnership" with this agency that there is no hope of rewriting the way subsidy and eco schemes are gold plated to preserve jobs.

I agree with farmerbill that it will do us no good in the public eye if Farmers Weekly allows this stupid, unresearchable and unsubstantiable article to be published - just another self inflicted wound on an industry whose leaders press have indoctrinated themselves with the mindset that farmers are not seen in a good light by the public, and drive 500 hp tractors, 40ft header combines, 5 mile wide sprayers and are rich because of subsidies. 

I'll agree with Matthew.  Farming is always said to be a special case; well wake up and realise you're not.  I spend my life getting forms ticked to ensure that we are complying with H&S and best practice while those around cut corners and work on the basis that it isn't going to happen to them and if it does it bad luck or somebody elses fault.  We work in an industry where we carry a huge responsibility for producing a quality product and safeguarding those who work in the industry.  Because of the unprofessionalism of a large minority of the industry the majority of the red tape is required.

when the supermarkets pay the 1984 price of  produce adjusted for 26 yrs of cost inflation, ie £500 a ton for wheat, £500 for spuds, £200 for a lamb, i will gladly fill in allthe forms that mathew naylor wants.

as long as we are paid less than a street sweeper, and our wives have to subsidise the farm, you can shove youre forms where the sun dont shine.

I totaly agre with glasshouse on this one.

is Farmers Weekly starting to go the same way as countryfile, hope not.

up the rams:

Whenever I buy farm produce in the supermarket, I always go to customer services and say "I hope the farmer is up to speed with his paperwork, because if not, I'm taking my custom elsewhere."

not sure what you mean with this one?

cymro:

up the rams:

Whenever I buy farm produce in the supermarket, I always go to customer services and say "I hope the farmer is up to speed with his paperwork, because if not, I'm taking my custom elsewhere."

not sure what you mean with this one?

I think up the rams is being a little sarcastic. I have to agree with the majority on here. Yes we need regulation, but some of it is so complicated and unneccessary it makes a mockery of the industry and the system. It just requires a little joined up thinking. I think it was summed up quite well when they released the costs of processing each SFP application. In Scotland it cost £2,500 and in England it was more than double that! Simplify the system and save money.

Oh dear Rachel.

So  even our own Farmers Weekly has joined the papers shufflers supporters club, now we are really b*ggered!

 Every commie in the country will latch on that article with delight and joy, for in publishing such palpable nonsense you are giving them yet another weapon with which to destroy the credibility of our wonderful industry and our way of life and an excuse to replace it with total state control of all Agricultural production.

. Shame on the Farmers Weekly, maybe you ought to change the name now and call it 'The Socialists guide to Collectivization of Agriculture.'

Shocked and despondent.  Dick.

Dick you should have been at the Thainstone meeting this week. The traffic police, VOSA etc tried to get through to people the need to actually follow the rules. The relics on the road round here are deadly yet some rail against excessive regulation of those very relics. I wish I had a bit more more paperwork and red tape, £20 or 30 thousand of SFP for a couple of forms seems to be a good deal to me. Most other stuff takes about 5 or 6 hours a month,hardly onerous. Sprayer records should take only a few minutes on a template, how hard can that be?

He his self - I know what you mean.  I know young farmers who haven't taken their trailer test but still drive with a trailer on the road because they believe they are competent in driving with trailers.  Many of them are competent and no doubt better than some horsey person who has passed their test but has little experience.  They don't seem to realise that as they are not licenced they are not insured.  When the industry starts complying with the existing red tape in force then we should start arguing for a reduction.

 

 

 

a lot of these twerps who call for more regulation have a vested interest in the demise of family farms. especially the ones who sit on assurance scheme boards.

i know one such large farmer who actually welcomes sheep eid, because it wil drive his smaller neighbours out of sheep. and he can get their land.

gh sheep EID is easy. Useless and irrelevant but easy now I have a new computer, we have to tag them anyway the chip makes no difference.

cymro

I am also a consumer. Red tape is allegedly for consumer protection. I don't want the guy who produces my food to have to jump through hoops; I just need to know that it isn't going to kill me. Hope this clarifies things. Check out my post on the "meat from cloned cattle" thread http://www.fwi.co.uk/community/forums/p/49658/158405.aspx#158405 to see where I am coming from.

It seems that the Authorities are going ahead with the review to cut red tape, which is great.  There are a few on here that seem to get off on more regulation. Perhaps they should start their own scheme and leave the rest of us alone.   They could insist on weekly inspections and more stringent regulations, they could agree to spy on fellow members and report anyone transgressing. They could then persuade the housewife to buy their highly regulated products identifiable with a red swastika instead of a little red tractor.

He his-self:

we have to tag them anyway the chip makes no difference.

 

makes no difference to you maybe,but to me it doubles the price of tags,

and how can smallscale farms justify a tag reader?

up the rams:

cymro

I am also a consumer. Red tape is allegedly for consumer protection. I don't want the guy who produces my food to have to jump through hoops; I just need to know that it isn't going to kill me. Hope this clarifies things. Check out my post on the "meat from cloned cattle" thread http://www.fwi.co.uk/community/forums/p/49658/158405.aspx#158405 to see where I am coming from.

i can see where you are coming from know sorry.

farmerbill:

It seems that the Authorities are going ahead with the review to cut red tape, which is great.  There are a few on here that seem to get off on more regulation. Perhaps they should start their own scheme and leave the rest of us alone.   They could insist on weekly inspections and more stringent regulations, they could agree to spy on fellow members and report anyone transgressing. They could then persuade the housewife to buy their highly regulated products identifiable with a red swastika instead of a little red tractor.

Scotch Beef and Lamb do just fine for me thanks fb. Do you want your output branded as dodgy with no traceability or safety regulations? As to the cost of EID it is tiny compared to running costs. All I ask for is you to be as honest as me, and not cheat yet I am branded a Nazi, charming. PS if I do see blatantly dangerous kit I report it, I do not want to see another death. What do you do, go to the funeral?

In reply to our friend the 'devilsadvocates' posting.

 I am surprised Sir that you would think that by complying with and indeed asking for yet more bureaucratic regulations you think that we will be able to argue for a reduction in the same red tape which you are happy to see increase .

 Hoping that more regulations will eventually lead to less regulation is like making love in an attempt to restore virginity, nonsensical, physiologically impossible and plain daft.

Dick

It's a good point. There is red tape and pointless red tape. As an industry I think we are probably subject to less red tape than most. Pointless red tape is simply the sheer duplication of boxes ticked. Others - eid, assurance, NSTS are all very useful in my book.

I think there is come confusion with the actual red-tape, and the zeal it is enforced. I reckon most farmers dont like it because they fear an "enthusiastic" inspector will take all their SFP away because a 2m margin is only 1.9m wide.

 

Did you use invisible ink Glasshouse ?

ww, its like that room with nothing in it in the tate modern.

no really it was my effing compueter disconnected just as i pressed send.

was going to say that between eid and fallen stock colection, my costs are up £7,000 a year.

straight off the bottom line, if you can find it. all for nothing.

Fear not Dick, FW is still fully committed to its "Rip Up Red Tape" campaign. As Isabel explained when we launched the campaign:

"Red tape. There's too much of it and it drives us round the bend. It's one issue that over the years you've routinely, regularly and repeatedly raised as one of your biggest bugbears. You don't want to be shuffling paper when you could be rearing stock and growing crops. Producing food is a far more constructive use of your time and skills."

So we're not fully paid up members of the paper shufflers supporters club just yet ;)