What topics would you put on the agenda?

Who would you get to speak?

Caroline Stocks FWi article on the proposed summit can be read in full here...

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2009/06/22/116287/tories-announce-dairy-summit-to-help-struggling-milk-producers.html

The Tory party have no policy for farming.

The last administration brought in the 1986 act which decoded the 1947 act so that countryside no longer equaled farming, but became about leisure, environmental protection and rural employment.

They brought in quotas for milk production, privatized milk marketing board (as was called before milk marque), oversaw the rise of BSE, and were the most anti-farmer administration since Margaret Beckett.

I fear for agriculture more under a possible tory administration, than the present incumbents, at least we know there are a bunch of folk who know nothing about agriculture in place. What of the alternative, nothing will educate you more than to see what they said in the commons debate on 18th June.

Quote Mr. Philip Hollobone  (He is conservative  for Kettering) "....no use trying to reskill an industry such as dairy farming"

or even better Nick Herbert " In my view, sustainable farming - producing to the market with profitable farms - will ultimately be necessary if the industry is to survive." So here you have it even more destruction of agriculture under a future tory administration guaranteed.

 

The Tories will probably form the next government whether you like it or not, and your attitude of being stand-offish and petty points scoring will get us all nowhere, we have to face the reality of the situation.

A former NFU regional director whom I greatly admired said "The first rule of lobbying is turn up."

The topics I would like to see discussed are: How do we persuade the next generation to make a career in dairy farming? I have 3 daughters, so probably haven't reared my own replacement. I shall tell them all, at present, to work hard at school, and get into university, and leave dairy farming to mugs like me. How can we turn things round so that I, and others, feel minded to tell their kids different.

Supermarkets are a fact of life. How can we work with them rather than against them? How can the Government make dairy farming more of a pleasure, and less of an obstacle course?

How do we reach out to the ordinary farmer (like myself), who only wants to do the best possible job milking their cows, and leave the business and politics to others? As for speakers, I suggest Ian Potter, Barry Wilson, Gwyn Jones, and a couple of big hitters from the supermarkets and processors. Also, the chairman of Milk Link, whose name escapes me.

It is clear to me that this is simply the Conservative party playing politics.  After the meeting they will be able to say that they are taking the issue seriously and that they have made an effort, but nothing but nothing will result from the meeting.  If the Conservatives in any way took the side of producers, they would upset processors and retailers.  In terms of votes and jobs, why would they want to do that?

 I have already had my meeting with Jim Paice at the House of Commons.  I have certain views on dairy industry reform, but Mr Paice did not think it appropriate for the Conservative party to become involved.  My ideas involve dairy farmers making things happen themselves.  Mr Paice suggested that I get on with the job of persuading farmers.  I would have done a lot better if the Conservative party had been able to show their support in some way.  After all, my ideas are very Thatcherite.  Odd that the Conservatives are able to campaign in favour of saving the small shop and saving the local pub.

 Robert,

I have to agree with your assessment of the Conservatives regarding any attempt at  improving the lifestyle of the dairy farmer.    There is  a group of 150 MPs supposedly  formed  to support the dairy  producers but Jim Paice made it very clear to me not to expect    anything from it other than an attempt to suggest changes  - but they have no power.. Why they waste their time forming this group  is another question as the ones that matter, the retailers will take  little or no notice of them. One must wonder -do they ever meet?.  They will not upset the retailers, that is for sure.  I'm  afraid Lord Haskins(ex-Northern Foods and a man knows something about the business) was right  when he  spoke at a conference in 2006  - his remedy was to cut production by 20%  and do something to curtail  retail margins which were then 35%. He called  the UK milk processors idiotic and stupid  and  for using suicidal business methods.  Certainly the outcome  was suicidal for the  suppliers but I don't think ihe meant it to be  that way. Have we reached anywhere near 205 yet i wonder.  Their margins  must be more by now  and I see that  ASDA have  today started  another  price-cutting  war,  again using the  money which is rightfully ours. Wasn't it Mrs Thatcher   who  originally  progressed the elimination of the MMB  so that  her retailers friends could benefit?.  I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong Robert.

 Best Wishes.

I wrote to Lady Thatcher recently to say that I could not believe that the modern dairy chain was what she had envisaged for the milk industry.  I suggested that my own model was in keeping with her thinking, and that she should back it.  No reply was received.  I thought I would at least get invited to tea and cake.

thatcher has a lot to answer for, trashing the mmb,& pmb, ruining farmers with 18% overdraft rates, bringing in fbt tenancies(Farmer Born to Toil)

 

Glasshouse,

Pity we never backed Foot and Kinnock, then. The words 20/20 hindsight spring to mind. So, we still need the MMB, do we? Aw diddums, we can't hold our own in the big bad world of business, and need the government to spoon feed us and hold our hands for us.

I dont think the tories or any other party are much bothered about improving dairy farmers lifestyles.The way to improve lifestyles is to milk enough cows and employ enough staff so everyone has a sensible working week.Easier said than done.There are many types of milk producer,from the agri business which wants a return on capital through driving down cost of production to the guy who is prepared to work 70 hours a week in the hope of making a living from a small acreage.The way to ensure the survival of the latter is to bring in a minimum price along with quotas tied to the land which cant be sold to the former.I just cant see that happening.Lets face it,if a guy is prepared to work 70 hours a week for a pittence thats exactly what he'll get in a free market.

up the rams, if you ask dairy farmers now about the mmb, i think you will get a positive response. Farmers need protection from rapacious milk buyers as much today as they did in 1930 when the mmb came in.

As for kinnock, if he had had half a brain he would have got elected.

Glasshouse, What you, me, or any other dairy farmer thinks about the MMB is totally irrelevant. It ain't coming back any time soon, get used to it. This forum has proved a huge disappointment, everyone else seems just to want to fight yesterday's battles, I prefer to fight today's. I would like to see a system of self-imposed quotas, where we all sign up to the principle of producing less than market demand, in order to stop farmgate prices falling. Also supermarkets, get used to them, they are a fact of life. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Use their muscle on our behalf to get cheaper fuel, fert, etc.

A quick review of the posts suggest that it is agreed that the UK dairy sector has problems, they are not new problems, the periods of stability have become shorter and the fallout has continued unabated with all classes of dairy farmers forced out. In some cases without realising the true net worth of their businesses but some farmers have been able to exit in a structured way to their benefit.

Liquid milk pricing is as any commodity subject to volatility and the vagaries of the so called 'free' market, the added value end of the milk processing sector has contracted too and rather like abattoirs they are in the wrong place and to far from their markets.

Costs will go up and the law of diminishing returns will prevail.

Provenance, food security, connecting consumers, margin stability, self-imposed v government imposed quotas, supermarket buying policies, imports, environment, farming systems, technology investment, capital investment and many more need to be discussed in the round by all stakeholders.

Other commodity industries that don't directly employ large labour forces are in the same boat, what can be learned from these industries? (renewable energy for example)

Ok, so who are we going to have on this summit and what will they tell us?

Speakers Name, Specialist Interest, Topic of their presentations please....

 

 

up the rams:

How do we reach out to the ordinary farmer (like myself), who only wants to do the best possible job milking their cows, and leave the business and politics to others?

Doesn't this speak volumes?

I am sorry to see that this forum is a disappointment for you. Is it because the views expressed are not the one's that you need to see? Or is it that by looking back into history you view such analysis as the Fordist philosophy of 'History is bunk'?I am at a loss with your position. First we have to turn up to lobby, ok yes I agree, then we have the wondrous advice of milk cows and leave the business and politics to others. I guess the putdown will be petty point scoring, again. I am stand-offish as I am un persuaded that the possible Cameron administration is the answer, unless they do decentralize power, I think this unlikely. There is nothing radical coming out about what they will do. Though at least they have nailed their trousers to the mast in the agricultural debate in the commons. And like you say it is big business all the way, more of the same. At least with their failure to manage the risk to food supply the day is arriving soon, when there will be a blip in supply, that will certainly concentrate their minds.It is perfectly possible with luck and judgment to enter dairying as a youngster because at least now you don't have to pay for the union card as quota is virtually worthless. What you do is sell milk directly, milk a few cows, and make cheese, yogurt and the 1,000s of other products available.Why sell milk for 20p/litre when it can be sold for 90p/litre or even £2.75 per kg?I did read about a dairy farmer who claimed that you had to point cows towards the moon to conceive females, and away for males. He had sons of his own and 90% females for replacements in his herd. 

 

 I would like it pointed out at the summit that if something isn't done soon we will lose the next generation of dairymen and women. The youngsters see what is happening and choose other careers. You cannot train a farmer, they are bred.

The family farm is the breeding ground for so many life forms. The family farm keeps the countryside looking and feeling good. They supply food, which is then taken by supermarkets and sold cheaply, giving the farmer little or no return for his labour.

Farmers in this country have to comply with a surplus of legislative measures, hSe, welfare, hygeine, CTS, the list is endless. This makes our food more expensive to produce. Then govt allows supermarkets to import cheaper stuff from other countries. This needs stopping. Either we want top quality food or not?

 If something isn't done soon we won't have any choice. We have lost our shipbuilders, steelworks, coalmines, mills, fishermen and car workers. not much industry left, all stuff imported. Do you want your milk to come from poland? I think this is the main issue that needs discussion. Once we lose our production capacity the 'cheap' imports will suddenly become more expensive.

chris

up the rams, i am not a dairy farmer, and if i have learned anything about agriculure , it is the fact that there is nothing new in farming, or marketing of farm produce.

The 1930 solution worked, wheras your model probably wont. Any solution which allows people to duck out is doomed.

We should not assume that supermarkets will always hold the aces. They can only operate where product is continually in surplus. Their selling of milk as a loss leader , funded by farmers penury , has to be stopped.

I buy all our milk delivered to my door by one of only 2 dairy farms in this county.

It's interesting a few of you have mentioned milk imports.

I wrote this on Friday http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2009/06/26/116337/dairy-industry-not-in-crisis-says-defra-minister.html about DEFRA's representative in the House of Lords claiming the industry isn't in crisis. 

I didn't include it in the article, but Lord Daives also reckoned milk imports aren't an issue (see the Hansard transcript is below). I seriously wonder where his head is...

The Countess of Mar: My Lords, does the Minister appreciate that milk is a staple part of our diet in this country and that we should be very sure that we are self-sufficient in it? We were at one time self-sufficient, and we were exporting milk. We are now importing milk in the thousands of gallons from France. Is he satisfied that our milk industry is in good heart while we are importing from another country?

Lord Davies of Oldham: But, my Lords, we are also exporting milk as well. Therefore, I do not think that it will stand up to suggest that the milk industry is in crisis in those terms. There are certainly pressures on some small producers—we recognise that and we have sympathy for them. We are concerned. We called a meeting to analyse this problem and to give a reassurance that every mechanism would be employed to sustain as many of the small farmers concerned as possible. I am pleased to report that it was quite clear from that meeting that constructive action was being taken by all those concerned. However, we cannot extrapolate from that that the British milk industry is facing a bleak future, because it is not. What it is suffering from, in certain very exposed areas, such as the very small producers, is reduced demand, but we all recognise the reasons for that.

 All defra care about is making the countryside look pretty, they don't care about food, farmers or fishermen. Lord Davies doesn't know his *** from his elbow. He doesn't do anything to help small family farms at all. I haven't heard a dickybird from him or defra or any of the other 'rural' support agencies. the only literature i have received is a glossy leaflet for ELS. They just want us to live on subsidies to keep the farm looking nice and produce nowt.

chris

Caroline, this whole milk import/export question is definitely worth a 'duck house' type investigation.

Imports of raw milk come from the Republic of Ireland for processing by dairies in Northern Ireland.

Imports of raw milk for processing into the UK—2008
	Million litres
Irish Republic	41.3
Source: DARDNI

Liquid drinking milk is imported mainly from the Republic of Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands, France and Germany. There were no recorded imports of liquid milk from Non-EU countries during 2008.

Imports of liquid drinking milk into the UK from the EU—2008
	Million litres
Irish Republic	54.4
Belgium	27.4
Netherlands	21.6
France	17.2
Germany	12.8
Other EU countries	0.6
Total UK imports from EU countries	134.1
Source: HMRC

My understanding is that if any of this milk is mixed with UK milk it can be called 'British' and sold as such to Mr and Mrs U.K. Consumer and this is supposedly all 'drinking' milk.

 Here is the link to the reference ref: Milk Imports.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2009-05-14b.274622.h

Motley,

 What I meant was that we as an industry should turn up to lobby our next government, not necessarily myself, although I would go if asked, as I feel that I could contribute. I find that many of the views expressed are simply not constructive nor feasible. It is rather like the Irishman saying"I wouldn't start from here".

up the rams:

"I wouldn't start from here".

Where do we start from?

the greenth:

My understanding is that if any of this milk is mixed with UK milk it can be called 'British' and sold as such to Mr and Mrs U.K. Consumer and this is supposedly all 'drinking' milk.

Is that really the case? I wasn't aware of that. Milk imports are definately something I've been meaning to look at for a while. I shall put on my investigative hat forthwith

Richard Bacon MP South Norfolk (Conservative) and others put forward a bill to this effect around October 2008...

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm081029/debtext/81029-0004.htm