What i'm really after is a soil expert but if anyone around here is a soil expert than advice would be appreciated. I have a farm in south west england and am thinking of going into large scale veg production. The soil is clay (therefore heavy and poorly aerated) however the clay is red and i've heard that means it has oxygen within it or something. If anyone could point me in the direction of someone or an organisation i could talk to, it would be appreciated.

Red clays mean high iron content and the colour does refer to an oxidised soil but not to oxygen itself.  the colour comes from the parent material - the underlying rock type.  I'm assuming you may be in the Exeter-Crediton area?  The rocks here have a characteristic bright red colour which is hard for the soil forming processes such as gleying - ie waterlogging - to change, so they can be quite poorly drained without showing hte awful mottled colours one would normally expect.

contact me direct if you'd like to talk more John Conway  John.conway@rac.ac.uk  

Viable = no.

 

You may wish to contact www.adas.co.uk

Whatever you do get a few opinions, but remember what Teslacoils has said and so don't get too enthusiastic unless the facts support your business case.

All the best however, and try to keep us in touch with what you are doing, as there are many readers who are interested in learning from newcomers to the forum.

Heavy land is best suited to wheat, rape etc.  Light land is best suited to veg production.....easy working, fine tilth. We have 2 rotations on the farm, one for the heavy land which is min tilled and grows wheat and rape and one for the light land where we grow salad onions and strawberries with wheat as the break crop.

TeslaCoils:

Viable = no.

 

as simple as that? The soil is 'clayey' but i've seen 'clayier' soils. With people growing veges on patches throughout the area i fail to see the difference.

i saw this soil website and it gave me some hope reading the clay paragraph http://www.eais.net/soil/

What you are failing to see is if having soil that can grow patches of veg makes a viable business. If you can grow veg here and there, and have irrigation etc, then get it let for veg/pots.

Lots of people can grow spuds but how many do in their own right? Few and getting fewer. Why? not becuase they dont want to, but capital costs and lack of end user contracts. Big spud growers have all the best contracts for the super markets etc.

Clay of any type will not be able to match the light land boys for veg and roots. As we are talking viability, lets consider the capital inputs for field scale veg growing......they are not small. Do you want the hassle of specialist kit and all that dicking about? Where are you going to store it/sell it etc?

Another way to think about it being viable, is "can I find or create a niche product with a local demand?" Could you grow roses on it? What about herbs? How about lavender etc that you could get a grant to process to a finnished product?

Field scale veg production in your own right? Sorry but it is as simple as "no". Better if you want to do that would be to rent some land more suitable, as the base land rent is only a tiny factor in this sort of crop production - fenland silt growers are growing more than one crop a season on their land.

TeslaCoils:

What you are failing to see is if having soil that can grow patches of veg makes a viable business. If you can grow veg here and there, and have irrigation etc, then get it let for veg/pots.

Lots of people can grow spuds but how many do in their own right? Few and getting fewer. Why? not becuase they dont want to, but capital costs and lack of end user contracts. Big spud growers have all the best contracts for the super markets etc.

Clay of any type will not be able to match the light land boys for veg and roots. As we are talking viability, lets consider the capital inputs for field scale veg growing......they are not small. Do you want the hassle of specialist kit and all that dicking about? Where are you going to store it/sell it etc?

Another way to think about it being viable, is "can I find or create a niche product with a local demand?" Could you grow roses on it? What about herbs? How about lavender etc that you could get a grant to process to a finnished product?

Field scale veg production in your own right? Sorry but it is as simple as "no". Better if you want to do that would be to rent some land more suitable, as the base land rent is only a tiny factor in this sort of crop production - fenland silt growers are growing more than one crop a season on their land.

I see and get your points of view. And yes I am basing my business model viability of field scale veg growing on the assumption that people are eating more fruit and veg and that people are increasingly wanting to buy from local producers and not just local but perhaps even from smaller growers (perhaps).

The sad thing is that even in a local area if there's someone with a patch of silty or peaty land in a valley nearby, they're going to be able to produce decent veg more easily than you on clay.  Having said that, a few things will do very well on clay, e.g. sweet corn, broad beans & blackcurrants and probably other things as well, so you could try them. Indeed most root or salad crops will give some sort of crop if given enough attention and care, but it really is like pushing water uphill.

PYO blackcurrants could be a goer. I dont know whereabouts you are wildthyme, but around here we can only get PYO strawbs. If you are near a decent sized town, then local boxed deliveries is going to avoid the hassle of super markets and middle men.

Infact, the more I think of black currants the more I like the idea. Do you have cows? Does anywhere near you have cows and make icre-cream? No afaik, most black currants in the UK are sold to Ribena. Could you grown and sell fresh, or even supply a local ice-cream maker with the raw fruit to make into a flavour? Gives you a bulk and through the year market, and you could use them to advertise your PYO?

I supose on say 25ac you could produce enough spuds, Brussels and others to run a box scheme, but for things like salad leaves, you want or rather need to grow them on light and irrigated land. But hey-ho - buy them in and rebadge them. Or find someone local who grows salads, someone else who grows onions, etc, and you run the box scheme.