The proposed badger cull in Wales has been blocked by The Badger Trust. The Trust mounted a legal challenge and won on a technicality.

 What are your thoughts?

Upset, angry, come to mind.

Having just gone clear after 2 years l fully expect to go down again this autumn.

We have picked up several dead badgers on this farm, thin with very long claws, they died of something, and it was not us helping them on their way.

Fencing the cattle away from the badgers is not viable, as they are everywhere, using the same water sources to drink, the same pasture to find feed.

l suppose to be realistic, l should sell all the stock,and  sit on my bum watching SKY  and live off the SPS.

The Farmers' Union of Wales have just issued their reaction - they called it a "bitterly disappointing outcome".

A spokesperson said: “Farmers are doing their bit to control this disease, yet the court has decided that the most significant obstacle to controlling this disease, namely an highly infected badger population, cannot be addressed until further consideration of the facts is undertaken by the Assembly’s Rural Affairs Minister.

"Farmers throughout Wales, from Anglesey down to Monmouthshire, have been doing their bit to combat bTB for decades, and are now subject to more movement restrictions and bTB testing than ever before, all at huge expense."

There is constant talk about basing contoll measures such as a cull on scientific evidence, then denying the veterinary services the means to collect scientific data from a controlled cull.

A system whereby all dead badgers can be collected for post mortem might give a good indication as to how many are dying as a result of TB, and how many road kills etc have TB lesions, this would at least give an indication of mortality levels and infection amongst outwardly healthy badgers.

The solution is in farmers hands. Are we children waiting for Nanny to tell us what to do? Sometimes a Man has to do what a Man has to do, quietly with no fuss.

farmerbill:

Sometimes a Man has to do what a Man has to do, quietly with no fuss.

The campaigners will drive farmers to do this, when people start getting T.B will it change then, must be allright to kill cattle in their minds

It looks from the judgement like the judges have left the door open for the WAG to amend their order and get past the legal points.  One has to hope that the badger trust bankrupt themselves by continuing their campaign.  It is a shame that no farming advocate ever seems to get the points clearly across to the media and general public that much of the argument by the trust and their fellow travellers is deeply flawed and that 'the science' most certainly doesn't support their view, even if it is also far from clearly in favour of culling.  Sadly, I fear with all the attention and inevitable further disruption that even if a cull goes ahead its results will be compromised even before it starts.  And of course cattle and other stock (increasingly including sheep, goats, camelids, cats, etc.), not to mention wildlife, will continue to die unnecessarily.

I am f*****g FURIOUS !

Have bought a terrier.

    So what are The Badger Trust and groups like the Pembrokeshire Against the Cull going to do about it? Nothing? Are they happy to see TB rife among badgers? (Even if they couldn't care less about the cattle, the milk. the public and the farmers). This disease has to be stopped, eradicated for good if possible. The Government has to be involved and this matter has to be put to rest once and for all. It is pathetic that such an important disease is allowed to continue uncontrolled. 

    I see nothing wrong with trying a cull in one area. Those who advocate an inoculation type method of control, (if that is possible), should be told to get on with it, - to select an area for control, - to put up or shut up. Those who don't want to get involved should be made to back off and let sensible attempts be given a chance. To do nothing is no longer an option.

I'm quite annoyed too, Welshnwilling

Have bought beet nuts

Politicans,Lawyers and Trade Unions are guaranteed to mess anything up.The irony is they all think they are wonderfull.I think the best Policy is to tell the Press that we are taking the Gandi stand and we do absolutely nothing to cooperate with Defra and let it be known that we are going to take the money.Watch the look on everyone in Westminster change.

I think the solution has been suggested on hear in a round about sort of way. Let them have their day in court and think they've got their way then quietly, carefully deal with the problem our selves. If it is left to the politicians and desk jockey's nothing will ever get done and the porblem will get worse and worse!

music to the ears of welsh nationalists i think, an english court overruling the welsh assembly.

let the welsh sort out the badgers, legally or otherwise.

glasshouse:

music to the ears of welsh nationalists i think

Not in this case, Glasshouse. Elin Jones herself is a Plaid Cymru AM and she has fought tooth and nail to get this cull going. She must feel absolutely gutted. I don't think we have ever had an Agriculture minister who has commanded so much respect among farmers ( though the new Glastir agri-environment scheme is a shambles ). Hopefully she can get a new culling order through the Assembly before the next election in May 2011.

badgers - not an endangered species, so repeal the badger act and do away with all the legal problems, the hunting with dogs act gives them the protection they need.

i dont know why you welshmen tolerate this situation. a court in wales should decide the issue, not in london.

 @AllyR

"So what are The Badger Trust and groups like the Pembrokeshire Against the Cull going to do about it?"

Suggest we look at vaccinating badgers instead. Many of us would willingly train to do the vaccination, and the Badger Trust people in particular already know where most of the setts are.

Vaccination is cheaper and less controversial than culling, according to WAG's own models it is just as effective at reducing TB in cattle - but its effects last more than 35 years rather than less than 10 - and unlike culling it runs no risk of spreading TB. If the cull had been carried out in the same patchy way the sett survey was, it would definitely have caused more TB than it prevented.

Likewise those advocating culling badgers yourselves - be aware that that sort of patchy small-scale culling will also definitely  spread TB, especially if you have TB on your farm already.

Those suggesting that the science supports culling - I would genuinely like to know what you base that on. One thing that struck me during this debate is that every single scientist who spoke out on this subject and who was an expert in this field was against the cull, yet WAG and cull supporters still claim that the science supports a cull. I'm sure we all know that the only trial of the trap-and-shoot culling method in the UK concluded that "badger culling cannot meaningfully contribute to the control of cattle TB in Britain."

gavin, how are you going to vaccinate every single badger? if you dont get every one, you may as well not bother. who is going down the holes to jag them?

will you be happy when all the cows are gone.? will you drink tb infected badger milk?

glasshouse:

i dont know why you welshmen tolerate this situation. a court in wales should decide the issue, not in london.

English courts banned hunting, but we're still hunting. As for culling Badgers, well, there may be none left by the time they come to cull them officially.

Making the badger a protected animal was the worst thing they could have done for the species IMHO. Instead they should have tightened up on the baiters.

Bill Oddie recommends you feed them peanuts.

glasshouse:

an English court overruling the Welsh assembly

It would be interesting to know how many Welsh, and come to think of it, Scottish Judges, Barristers and Solicitors are practicing in the legal system shared by  England and Wales. From my long years of working in Wales my guess is that Welsh, and Scottish legal beagles have power and influence out of proportion to their numbers in their native populations. I fancy this as no bad thing in the context of the United Kingdom.

As to the issue of the blocked cull. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that were the NFU to ask farmers en-masse to refuse to cooperate in a specific area of activity such as refusing to double ear tag all animals / or taking out one existing ear tag. Within weeks Defra would have something organised on cull lines.

The farming community is however, not noted for its ability to take coordinated action thus making the job of the anti farmer and bureaucrat easy.

I have said before the only group of farmers in the United Kingdom with the guts to try concerted action are the Welsh and were the Scots and the English to support them to the point of 51% of farmers on board. The bureaucrats would cave in under public pressure.

Ah. I wish it would happen but it requires some young headstrung Welsh lad to start the ball rolling.

As that is unlikely to happen, a more subtle approach would be for the NFU CLA and other agricultural bodies to 'secretly' agree to chase the Badger Trust and their ilk remorsely until their funds are exhausted and their organisations are declared bankrupt.

Those members of the Trust who have a genuine interest in badgers will no doubt, set about finding ways of helping badgers again, whereas those whose agendas go far beyond genuine concern for badgers will have long since gone.

 @glasshouse

"gavin, how are you going to vaccinate every single badger? if you dont get every one, you may as well not bother. who is going down the holes to jag them?"

 You won't get every one, of course, but you don't need to. WAG's own model only assumed a 70% catch rate over 80% of land (and with a vaccination programme I think you could get a lot more than 80% land access) and still showed a rapid reduction in TB in badgers of 50%. Compare that with culling which actually increases TB in badgers - and once you stop culling, the badger population will quickly return to normal levels, probably still with  the increased rate of TB.

 After listening to Elin Jones in the Assembly today I would also point out that she has not in actual fact lost the ability to cull or vaccinate, she's just lost the ability to force entry onto other people's land to do so. I doubt she'd get high enough voluntary access for a cull to be viable, but she could start vaccinating without passing another Order.

a) far more people would allow access to their land to vaccinate than would do so for a cull

b) with vaccination there is no perturbation effect, so imperfect access doesn't matter in the same way as for a cull 

Even if she later on managed to force through a cull, vaccinating beforehand would presumably cut down the perturbation effect and so would still be worthwhile.

what a load of rubbish, gavin.

if vaccinating only reduces tb by 50 % it is a waste of effort.

how do you work out that culling increases tb?

who said the culling would stop? it would need to go on for 10yrs, killing every badger, till tb was gone.