Do farmers realise that if they do deals with wind turbine companies to erect wind turbines on their farms, that  the turbine companies  will then have a financial hold on their property?  Imagine, a farm might be worth £400,000 , but two wind turbines put on that land might be worth £2 million. So the wind energy company will have more of a financial interest in the farm than the land-owner. Beware! 

I also know of a case where one farmer wanted wind turbines, so his  neighbours brought  professional valuers in  to see what effect the turbines, about 800 yards from their land, would have on the valuations of their farms. The valuers estimated drops in value of neighbouring farms, of £250,000. He valued  houses nearby as being worth at least £30,000 to £50,000 less ! Not only is the scenery   ruined , the noise from 400 feet high wind turbines can carry down-wind for about TWO MILES , especially at dead of night. The thumping noise is the killer. I've heard that described as Chinese water torture. There is no escape. A farmer installing turbines will ensure that they are as far as possible from his OWN  house. Therefore, they are  often closer to his neighbours'  homes.

Wind turbines can be dangerous. A huge blade , made of fibre glass, flew off a  300 ft ,plus,wind turbine  at Crystal Rig  , near  Berwick on Tweed , two years ago. Put CRYSTAL RIG BROKEN BLADE   into Google and see a pic on Berwickshiretoday. The turbine was turning out of control at hundreds of miles per hour, when the vibrations made it snap. A  blade tip normally turns at over 200 mph, so imagine how fast it must have been turning for it to snap?  The razor-sharp  fibre glass shards would have been deadly. right to Roam has come to the hills. Why don't the Ramblers Association complain of the deadly risks? Another 300 ft turbine  fell over in WEATHERFORD OKLAHOMA  in a 15 mph wind in 2005. Put that into Google for a pic. It was a General Electric wind turbine. General Electric installed turbines at Cefn Croes , Mid Wales, two years ago. How safe are they? There are plenty of pics on the internet of damaged turbines and broken blades.

  Do you know that there were over 700 lightning strikes  on Danish wind  turbines in recent years? Some turbine blades were smashed!

Another wind turbine went on fire  at the Nissan car plant, Sunderland, on Boxing Day, 2004. I think the date is right. They had to close major roads and let it burn. Fibre glass blades over 100 feet long that high up, are impossible to extinguish. They are dangerous near crops and trees. The lot could go up in flames!

See www.socme.org , then click wind power news top right for a lot of info. Another site is www.bmpg.co.uk. Wind turbines produce nothing in winds below  9 mph or above 52 mph . That is GUSTS , not average wind speed. Check www.metoffice.com/education/archive/uk to see how often the wind drops to unproductive speeds in the UK. See bmreports.com ,then bm reporting, to see how much electricity this country uses. It uses nearly  60000MW  at winter peak [ see Nov 29th 2005]. All the wind turbines in the UK, about 1600, only generate a measly 200 MW , or so, on average....but VERY SPORADICALLY... so what use is that? The fossil fuel power stations MUST be kept running, because no-one knows when the wind will drop! The UK used 54500MW  on Dec 10th 2002. That was the record for  3 years until nov 2005! So the UK PEAK  rose 5000MW ...or 10 per cent in only THREE years. Yet the Govt told us in 1999 that 10 per cent would have to come from renewables by 2010 ! What are they talking about? Whilst  they build 200MW of wind PRODUCTION [ not installed capacity], DEMAND in the UK rises  by 5000MW !  We are chasing our tails and getting nowhere ! Wind turbines will CLEARLY  not close one fossil fuel power station !! Furthermore , on the clearest , frostiest, COLDEST  winter's day.....THERE IS NOT A BREATH OF WIND!! Wind turbines are desecrating the UK  FOR NOTHING !!

NUCLEAR is the answer.

Here we go again, the same tired old nonsense from the anti wind taleban. Wind turbines are silent in operation, certianly less noisy than a pig unit. What are we going to get next the fake letter from Savills or a link to the Danish Nazi party anti wind site? Country Guardian and the other anti wind sites are full of this nonsense. Wind is  a profitable sustainable electricity source for the future. for the real facts go to

http://www.yes2wind.org/

I agree with you sir, harnessing free wind power has got to be a part of the solution to our energy needs. Only the most hardened left wing green eco warriors would try to stop such a progressive and wonderful source of energy being harvested. I think they would only be truly happy if they saw the human population exterminated in order to save the planet or perhaps seeing us back living in caves as huntergatherers again.

Dick

Dick I hope you are well, wind is a part of our future power supply along with nukes, gas and clean coal, as you say only the most extreme are against it.

Anyone who supports wind power must be either innumerate, non-technical , or busy collecting subsidies from it. It is a FACT , that the 1600 ,or so, UK wind turbines only generate about 200MW to 250MW ....at BEST!  Even that has to be totally unplanned  production and sporadic , so fossil fuel power stations backing the windmills  have to be kept running ,  sometimes  inefficiently  , wasting  fossil fuels.

  Another fact. If you check  bmreports.com , then click  b m reporting, you will see the electricity usage of the UK,  HOUR BY HOUR  if you click the third down on the left hand menu. If you go to HISTORICAL  and  check on Nov 29th 2005 at 5.30pm , you will see the UK RECORD  PEAK  for electricity usage. It is about 59,500 MW. Now the previous record was set on Dec 10th 2002, when about 54,500 MW  was used in the UK. Therefore, the UK winter peak demand increased by 5000MW.....or TEN PER CENT...in 3 years from  2002. Yet in the Kyoto Agreement a few years EARLIER [ around 1999], it was said  that  10 per cent had  to come from renewables by 2010 !? By renewables you can be sure they mean WIND...the only game in town!

But   UK peak USAGE  increased by 10 per cent from  2002 to 2005  ALONE!! Meanwhile , by the end of 2005  all the wind turbines in the UK  were managing about  220MW on average !  It has taken over 15 YEARS  to put those 1600 wind turbines up and running . It is pathetic! We are chasing our tails and getting nowhere. Usage is increasing far faster than they build wind turbines!! Can't you tell the difference between 5000MW and 220 MW ?

You farmers that support them only want SUBSIDY MONEY for nothing. You will devalue all your  neighbours farms and make life-long enemies. One thing is sure; you will achieve NOTHING for the UK. You will  NOT CLOSE a single fossil fuel power station.

 The Welsh Assembly wants  another 800MW installed  wind capacity  for Wales , with 400 x 2MW turbines, 400 feet high, which will be heard a mile away  EASILY. They will drive people mad at night.

A 400 ft turbine is a THIRD of the height of the ill-fated  TWIN TOWERS in New York !! Do you realise how big they are? The blades are as long as Nelson's Column !  The THUMP ! THUMP!  THUMP! in the wee small hours will carry 2 to 3 miles from the biggest wind farms.

Ofgem records for Mid Wales prove that  wind turbines generate ONLY  22 per cent of installed capacity.

Therefore, Wales would be wrecked for a measly  176MW. Meanwhile , the same Government wants a NEW  800MW gas-fired power station at Uskmouth and two 2000MW  gas-fired power stations at Milford Haven, Pembs. That is a NEW 4800MW of gas. Wales only USES 2000MW  total electricity , because we only have 3 million people. Wales ALREADY GENERATES   4000MW , without counting any of the hundreds of wind turbines or even the   1200MW pumped storage  plant at Dinorwig[ magic mountain] , Snowdonia !

So Wales will soon generate 8800MW  and  only USE 2000MW, without counting a single wind turbine !

Three-quarters of Welsh electricity production will go to England!

 So why is the PALTRY  176MW of TAN 8 going to be used to wreck the beauty of Wales from  Clwyd in the north to the Valleys of Glamorgan? It is TRIFLING and CRAZY!!When are wind turbines going to be put on the COTSWOLDS, CHILTERNS, MALVERNS  and SOUTH DOWNS ?? The Daily Mail, Times and Telegraph  will not tolerate the desecration of Southern England!

If wind energy is so fantastic, why are there no sails on the QE2? Why did Isambard Kingdom Brunel  bother with steam ships ? The truth is that an ICONIC sailing ship , like HMS Victory , was a TOY,only about 220 feet long. Can you imagine that  little toy next to a Japanese oil tanker or  container ship ? They are truly GIGANTIC !!  If the wind will not push them, it certainly will not power the UK!!The wind will not even power the Dover ferries . They are small compared to the biggest ships. Even in the days of sailing ships, the oars had to be used when the wind dropped. People will die on hospital operating tables if we rely on  UNRELIABLE, OFTEN ABSENT, WIND!!

Furthermore, do you realise that the SMALL turbines that litter Cornwall are only 150 feet high and only generate  0.12 MW  of electricity sporadically? Therefore, since the UK needs  60000MW at peak and 20 per cent is needed from renewables ,  aka wind, by 2020, it follows that 12000MW would be needed .

That means 100,000 of the Cornish turbines ! The UK IS  94,475 SQUARE MILES  in area !!!! Have the lunatics ...and their bent friends...., taken over the asylum? Besides, on calm days  under HIGH PRESSURE, there is no wind ?  What then?   A TRILLION   wind turbines will generate nothing!!  You supporters of wind turbines must be either dense or in receipt of subsidies for wind energy.

You are not practical!

By the way, it is NUCLEAR power companies, EoN  and RWE , from Germany that own a lot of UK wind turbines. EoN owns Powergen  and puts wind turbines in  TV adverts whilst owning about 25 FOSSIL FUEL power stations  in the UK. The parent, EoN  has four nuclear stations in Germany, plus about 20 fossil stations , plus about 20 coal-fired power stations in the USA . They are hypocrites, just like most wind energy advocates!

They possess more spin than their wind turbines!

I think you need to argue your point with Greenpeace rather than farmers.  Here are their websites:

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/ECommerce/banner/oceans/climate_oc.htm

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/

 

Don more anti wind fantasy Im afraid. I suggest you post on yes 2 wind for the real explanation of your sad delusions. Funny that the electricity you say wind does not produce will be sent to England bringing money to Wales. I farm next to 2 major wind sites and they have been welcomed by all except the most vicious anti progress anti people facists. They have even objected to the wind companies plans to donate with no strings attached large sums to local schools. When a local poll was carried out the objectors managed 1.5% of the population ie 98.5% in favour, when I spoke to the local planning officer he said he had  recieved a letter of objection from a dog. Needless to say the third large scale wind farm has now been approved bringing yet more jobs and money to our previously not so well off area.

What are you talking about ,Malcolm ?  It is farmers who are putting them on their land, not Greenpeace. Greenpeace  are totally  biased anyway. They are a farce. I watched the  Greenpeace ship ,Rainbow  Warrior come into Cardigan Bay, one evening . She has three masts so she can PRETEND  to be green. Not one sail was up as she arrived. The following morning , I watched her depart  on a BREEZY  day. Not one sail was up !!

Why?  That required WORK !! Most of the crew probably stayed in bed and the engineer  merely  PRESSED A BUTTON  to fire the DIESEL  engines  so she could depart !!

However,  a few months later , Rainbow Warrior  sailed into Cardiff Bay in South Wales to support the off-shore Scarweather Sands  wind farm off Porthcawl.. Off-course , NOW the three sails were UP ! Why?  BECAUSE THE TELEVISION CAMERAS WERE THERE !!!!!!

That is the story of wind-power....it is all SPIN!!! The Rainbow Warrior is a DIESEL-POWERED  ship.

The SAILS and MASTS  are   WINDOW-DRESSING to fool naive people !!

So go and tell the world what conmen  Greenpeace are, but don't tell me that wind turbines are nothing to do

with farmers. Farmers  own the land on which  they are being  erected . Their neighbours need to know the down-side.  A farmer in Mid Wales who has  about 15  wind turbines 150 ft high  on a neighbouring farm can HEAR those turbines THUMPING  in the middle of the night when the wind blows towards him......and he lives OVER HALF A MILE  away!

Now, a 150 ft turbine only has blades about  55 feet long. The  NEW wind turbines they now want to install in Wales  are 400 feet high , with blades about  150 feet long !! In other words , the new blades are as long as the turbines that can be heard from half a mile ! Furthermore, the new wind farms in Wales .....AND SCOTLAND.....will have  OVER A HUNDRED  of these gigantic turbines ! They will cover several square miles . Make no mistake ! They will be heard MILES  away !!

 Any schoolboy who has done basic  arithmetic could tell you that the area of a circle is  pi times radius squared.   Pi is 22 over 7. Therefore ,  55 ft blades have a swept area of  9507 square feet  and  150 ft blades  have a swept area  of  70714 sq ft. Clearly that is 7.43 times the area of the smaller turbines.

MASSIVE!!

Furthermore,  the longer blades are much thicker and wider due to their length. Therefore  vibrations through the air are much greater. Therefore the THUMPING  noise as the blades go through the air  is going to be greater from each turbine.  This noise is  EXTRA to the WHOOSH  sound as the blades cut the air. That can be heard closer to the turbines , along with the WHINE  of the rotors.  The THUMPING noise is greater at a distance from the machines than underneath.

I know a farmer's wife from Carmarthenshire who also suffered from the low frequency sound of a wind turbine. The 250 ft turbine was  about  a MILE from her  farm-house. She could not understand why her head ached when she was on the farm after  three wind turbines had been installed  a year earlier. Then she also noticed that she felt nothing when she went away for the day , so she realised that it must have been the wind turbines, particularly the one closest to the farm.

Her doctor confirmed it was the LOW FREQUENCY  SOUND , not even the audible thumping, that was causing the head-aches. She was particularly sensitive. She had to SELL UP!! She moved to another village  20 miles away, just to get away from the wind turbines.I know the woman. I've discussed it with her. She said so in the local Press.

 The turbines that caused it  are small , compared to the monsters in the pipe-line. So beware you farmers, if your neighbours apply for wind turbines ! Once they have their foot in the door, the wind farms get bigger and bigger ! Small turbines are later replaced by bigger, newer models  as the wind energy companies churn out  their LIES about how many homes will be powered. They power NONE when the wind  blows below 9 knots or above 48 knots , when they have  to be switched off in case the  fibre glass blades snap. Put CRYSTAL RIG BROKEN BLADE  into Google and view the snapped-off  blade in Scotland on Berwickshire today.

It spun at an enormous speed before it snapped ! A blade tip NORMALLY  turns at 200mph, so how fast did that turn to cause it to vibrate enough to break ? 200 yards ? 300 yards ??? At least, I say!!

How dangerous is that?  That turbine was a Nordex ! Idiotic  Carmarthenshire council has allowed a Nordex turbine to be put within  100 yards of the busiest Carmarthen-Cardigan  road , outside Newcastle Emlyn. If a blade snaps off and hits a school bus , imagine the disaster. What if a blade snaps at night and huge shards litter the road in the dark? In January  1990, we had 107 mph hurricane in Wales. When....NOT IF....that re-occurs , it will SMASH  every turbine blade in Wales!! In 1990 , there were no wind turbines.

Do you know that  some of the blades  at Cefn Croes wind farm , Devils Bridge, Mid Wales have had to be replaced this summer and they were only installed just over a year ago? This is due to some  sort of damage. We have not even had really strong winds over the past 15 months. The blades were supplied by Nigel Doughty , who owns LM Glasfiber.......HE GAVE THE LABOUR PARTY  £ 250,000  NOT LONG AGO !!!!! He who pays the piper calls the tune!!

By the way, about 13 of the 18 members of the  RENEWABLES ADVISORY BOARD , who advise the DTI on renewables are EXECUTIVES  of WIND ENERGY COMPANIES !!! Check it out on Google.

Tell the world about this incestuous  arrangement  !! It is a DISGRACE!!! Write   to your  councillors, MPs  and your local Newspapers !! KICK UP A FUSS!  Wind turbines will solve NOTHING !!

Go on  "he his-self" tell us what part of the UK  you reside !! Are YOU making money out of the turbines??

Have you got a personal vested interest ? Your neighbours need to check on their property valuations!!

How BIG are they ?  Sure the wind energy company has BRIBED  some local people. That's how they operate, because they make a fortune from the Green Levy of millions of electricity bills! I have provided FACTS  regarding UK wind energy production. Why can't you ADDRESS  THEM ?? You have NO ANSWER TO DETAIL!! The web site you mention is for people making MONEY from wind.

Check UK  wind speeds on metoffice.com/education/archive/uk to see how often the wind drops to  an UNPRODUCTIVE   9 knots all over the UK ! As I said wind turbines will not CLOSE a SINGLE FOSSIL FUEL OR NUCLEAR POWER STATION!!

 They are trifling!

Don you are in need of help have you contacted you GP about your obsessive behavour? Wind turbines are blamed by many for their mental problems but only because they are a visble change, there have  been several studies carried out in Sweden on this problem. Low frequency noise is a myth peddled by those who have lost all the other arguments. Modern turbines are safe reliable and productive at most wind speeds in the UK. In extreme weather events even nuke stations can suffer damage the last Swedish storm caused a nuke to close while leaving turbines undamaged. Please get help and leave the site for farmers as it is intended.

 to He his-self : Isn't it typical of charlatans like you to try and question the mental health of those that oppose you? There is nothing wrong with me ,pal ! I am 100 per cent sane !! I use capital letters, merely for emphasis . You  don't like the truth on wind energy, do you ? You are obviously on the take from this industry ! Why don't you even tell us what part of the UK you're in ? You won't answer regarding your financial involvement either . Your sort will RAPE Britain to fill your own pockets. We would see how much support there would be for you and your  wind turbines if they tried putting them on the South Downs, Chilterns , Malverns or Cotswolds. Beautiful parts of England cannot be wrecked !

The Times , Telegraph and Daily Mail would have every NIMBY  in southern England up in arms!!

 You don't like this , do you? You don't want FACTS  publicised !! Go on, answer MY FACTS on wind energy, that I put on earlier postings !!You CAN'T , can you ???

Don't tell me not to post on here. Do you think you OWN this site? It is not only a FREE country; this is the INTERNET ! This is international communication . People can post from America, Africa, Australia  , Aberdeen, Aberystwyth  ...or even Abingdon!!

 Talking of Abingdon, I spoke to an English holidaymaker the other day who ADVISED farmers on energy matters. He worked for ADAS !! He did not see the sense of wind turbines, he advised energy SAVING!!

He also said that he has passed the 400 ft turbine at Junction 11 , M4 , at Reading many times. He said that it SOMETIMES TURNED  when there was NO WIND !  I'm not surprised, they are often BACK-FED from the National Grid . In fact , I am also told that some UK wind turbines are computer-controlled from Germany. Not surprising !! German electricity giants EoN and RWE own HUNDREDS  of UK wind turbines.  They own NUCLEAR POWER, COAL AND GAS-FIRED POWER STATIONS. Tell me , pal! Why do Powergen show a man with a wind turbine on TV adverts  with the words POSITIVE ENERGY FROM POWERGEN ?  Powergen have OVER TWENTY FOSSIL FUEL power  stations in the UK. That is where they get electricity.....not trivial wind turbines !! ONE decent power station generates 1000MW to 2000MW. Drax generates about 3000MW. ALL the wind turbines in the UK, from Ulster to Scotland to Cumbria to Cornwall to Wales generate a piffling 200MW .....NOW AND AGAIN !!

So why does Powergen PRETEND its electricity comes from wind??.....MORE GREEN SPIN, BECAUSE GREEN IS THE LATEST FASHION !!! Powergen should be reported to the Advertising Standards Authority for MISLEADING THE PUBLIC!!

Ask Powergen about their German PARENT COMPANY .....EoN !!! They own FOUR NUCLEAR plants in Germany plus over 20 fossil ones ! They have over 20 COAL-FIRED power stations in the USA...YET THEY HAVE WIND TURBINES IN UK TV ADVERTS !! WHY NOT NUCLEAR PLANTS ?? Can't have that!! Can't have the TRUTH  from Powergen !! GIVE THE FOOLS THE SPIN INSTEAD !!!

 You hate this don't you ? You cannot stomach the TRUTH !!!

You can call me a nutter all day, pal, but the Powergen and EoN web-sites tell the TRUTH !! There they BRAG about their  generating plants!! It's the same with the other German giant, RWE...Check them out !!

MONEY is all these companies care about ! Their wind turbines produce minuscule amounts of electricity but they rake in SUBSIDIES ! How much do you get ?

Don far be it from me to question your sanity, your posts speak for themselves on that matter. You want facts on wind energy try this.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/public/

 

 The ASA has adjudicated many times on claims by the deluded anti wind groups and found them false, it is completely independent. I know this will not satisfy you as your problem cannot be resolved rationally. Farmers who have succesfully survived the hard times in our industry over the past few years are not fools, they know wind works and have the full support of almost all in the UK excepting yourself Don of course.

Don,

If  I were fortunate enough to get 3 or 4 wind turbines on my farm it would quadruple the value of my farm.

Think about it,

 

Jack Caley

Seems to me that the windpower-believers are running scared if discussion falls to the level of name-calling (objectors are a "taliban" or part of the "Danish nazi party" according to 'He his-self').

Let's start again and see if this gentleman can answer some specific factual questions.

1. Are you aware that the 'profit' made by landowners and developers of wind turbines come entirely from the Renewables Obligation arrangement, and the Climate Change Levy exemption which about double the price of wind generated electricity compared with average wholesale price?

2. Are you aware that the consumer (every consumer, not just green ones), is milked of this profit by increased bills? This is why the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee (PAC) said in its 2005 report on the DTI's Renewable Energy programme: - "The cost of the Renewables Obligation is passed on by electricity suppliers to consumers through higher prices. ....By 2010, the cost of the Renewables Obligation, which does not appear on electricity bills and is not explained to consumers..."

3. Did you know that in 2005, the chief executive of E.ON UK (formerly Powergen) said: - "Without the renewable obligation certificates nobody would be building wind farms." (Daily Telegraph, 26/03/2005)?

4. Did you know that so much backup generation will be required for windpower that it's CO2-saving will be much compromised and a formidable extra cost will be incurred. The German windpower operator E.ON Netz in its Windpower report 2005 wrote of wind electricity: - "It is not possible to guarantee its use for the continual cover of electricity consumption. Consequently, traditional power stations with capacities equal to 90% of the installed wind power capacity must be permanently online in order to guarantee power supply at all times." Sir Donald Miller, former Chairman of  Scottish Power, said in his submission to the Whinash windfarm public inquiry that the need for backup would cost at least 20% of the fossil-fuel displacement advantage. And of course the implication is that no conventional plant can EVER be retired because we build over-expensive wind turbines.

5. Do you realise that BWEA and Yes2Wind claim that the present backup provision for generation or transmission failure can absorb any problems caused by wind? This is indisputible - but misleading because windpower provides only 0.7% of our UK generation - indicating just how worthless it is. If we are ever foolish enough to deploy sufficient windpower for even 5% of UK generation it would require  up to 20% or more as installed capacity, because of the 25%-30% load factor. This would need dedicated backup or invite repeated grid failure.

Answer these five questions 'He his-self' (or anyone) and there are more where these came from.

These questions and all the others have been answered again and again on Yes2 Wind. The ASA has constantly debunked the anti wind lies again and again, all that happens is that it goes quiet on one board and then the same tired old merry go round starts again with new logins or new boards. This nonsense is all on the Country Guardian website you can read it all there if you can be bothered with the anti wind nutters. Yes the Danish Nazi party is anti wind so is our own Nazi party the BNP lovely company you anti windies keep. We who support a balanced power supply of nukes clean coal gas and wind find the air much fresher in the real world.

to Jack Caley

If you put  3 or 4 wind turbines on your farm, all your neighbours, for a 10 mile radius, would hate your guts, especially those within a 3 mile radius. You would lose life-long friends ! You would devalue the closest farms by up to £250,000 and surrounding houses by at least  £50,000 , depending on their size , distance and initial value. If the turbines numbered over 5 and were under 200 ft in height, the racket in neighbours homes at 3am, 4am ,5am would be unbearable! If the turbines were 400 ft high , the racket would carry over 2 miles !

PROVE OTHERWISE !!

Have a look at "Wind PowerNews" on  www.socme.org  if you want the truth on wind energy. The sites being quoted by  He His-self  are being FUNDED  by the Wind Energy companies, who profit from subsidies  , as correctly pointed out by John E. That poster knows what he is talking about ! Without subsidies , the wind energy industry would not exist.  He His-Self  must be making money from wind turbines, he is desperate to defend them ! He does not like the TRUTH, so he calls us Taliban and Nazis !!

Very nice! Why can't he answer FACTS ?  It is a fact that  the 1600 or so wind turbines in the UK  only generate  200MW to 250MW [ at best!] on average.....and much of the time ZILCH!! It is also a FACT that the UK uses 45000MW   ON AVERAGE !!  It is another FACT  that the UK uses  almost 60000MW at winter peak. That winter peak MUST BE MET !! It  occurs when the UK is very cold and frosty , with VERY LITTLE WIND !!! So a TRILLION   wind turbines will generate nothing then. That is patently obvious! NO WIND ! NO WIND ENERGY !!!  Simple as that!  Check www.bmreports.com , then bmreporting  for hourly UK electricity production. Note the peak on Nov 29th 2005  at 5.30pm [ the public return home and switch on 3 KW electric kettles and electric fires !!] . It was about 59500MW !!

So how can the UK get 20per cent, 10 per cent or even 5 per cent from the wind, when the wind comes and goes without much warning ?  It is OBVIOUS  that electricity must be ON TAP  24/7  from a RELIABLE  source, otherwise  the UK could grind to a halt!! 20 per cent of 60000MW  is 12000MW , which is the electricity  for about  12 MILLION   people in winter. That is LONDON  and SCOTLAND  combined !!

If we relied on wind, they could be without electricity for over a week at a time.  If you check  www.metoffice.com/education/archive/uk  , you will see that the wind dropped to 9 knots or less on  21 CONSECUTIVE   days in July , at Aberporth Met Office on the EXPOSED  West Wales coast.

Wind turbines DO NOT  power all the homes stated by the BWEA. They feed the National Grid, now and again ! The GRID  powers the homes of the UK !! 

Finally, put   "collapsed wind turbine, Weatherford , Oklahoma ", into Google. You'll  see a 300 ft plus General Electric wind turbine which fell over in a 15 mph wind.

OK Don you mentioned the ASA why dont you post some of their adjudications or would that spoil your fantasy. It is not a businessmans job to be loved by his neighbours, if you live your life ruled by the opinions of others it is no wonder you are part of the anti wind cult. What next, we have had spinning reserve, intermitency, visual impact, noise, no other fantasys on CG for you to spout? The opposition to wind is not rational and anti windies do not inhabit a reality based world.

He His-Self. Opposition to wind not rational ? The stats speak for themselves. Wind turbines at Blaenwaun, Whitland, Carmarthenshire  generated only 19 per cent of installed capacity in a year recently, according to official OFGEM  stats.  Turbines at llandinam  [ 103 turbines there]  and Carno in Powys, generated 22 pc  , again according to OFGEM. Can you tell me  if the back-up fossil fuel power stations were ever turned OFF  to match the stop-go-stop-go-up-down-up-down  ERRATIC production for such wind farms ? Of course not, the wind output was so TRIVIAL  and so ERRATIC that any fossil fuel  back-up ignored it.

If there were 10000 wind turbines of that size in the UK  [ 150 feet high or equal to Nelson's Column ie SMALL!] , they would have an installed capacity averaging   0.5MW each and produce  , say, 20 per cent of that.....ON AVERAGE!! That is a mere  0.1MW !!! So 10000 would produce  1000MW only . Well ,most  average UK power stations can produce 1000MW,  RELIABLY , in a PLANNED WAY !! Your 10000 wind turbines in a country [ UK] of 94500 square miles would DESECRATE  the WHOLE of the UK ........and for WHAT ??  A 1000MW which  was not pre-planned or catered for ! Because it would be so erratic, the fossils would be kept burning , at possibly spinning reserve level  SOMETIMES !! Fossils are burnt INEFFICIENTLY   when on spinning reserve. CO2 is still produced as the fossil is not utilised properly. The fossil fuel power stations could not be TURNED OFF!

Meanwhile, on average, 45000MW would STILL be needed by the UK   most days and 60000MW  in a cold winter. The UK would be ruined by 10000  wind turbines  covering every view-point in the UK, because even 150 ft ones are visible from a 10 mile radius.  Ruined for WHAT?  A measly ERRATIC  1000MW !!!  On a calm day , even the 1000MW would NOT BE THERE !!!

Drax Power station  ALONE generates 3000MW , CONSISTENTLY  in a PLANNED  and RELIABLE way !!  If we want electricity in the UK, it MUST come from fossils or nuclear. Nothing else will generate it!!

So don't tell me wind energy is RATIONAL!!

 A wind turbine is as useful as a chocolate fireplace!!

Hi Don & John

Dont you think theres something special about windmills a sort of  phallic symbol for the people of the hills-Mans triumph over nature etc-it doesnt have to be efficent just appears cool, like organic farming.

Something makes them cornish trees short and sideways growing maybe theres alot of lead in the soil.

Don all power generation systems are subject to variation this has been dealt with again and again none repeat none of the anti wind claims are true. I notice you do not dare post what the ASA says about anti wind claims. Lets sum up your position, you are anti wind, anti farmers getting any money from their own land, anti schools getting money therefore anti children, threatening to Jack Caley and a supporter of the policy of the BNP hardly a very rational or attractive manifesto is it? Perhaps your criticism of farmers and our activies would be better recieved elsewhere. I am certian the NHS can offer treatment for most mental illnesses I suggest again that you contact your GP urgently.

Jack,

Here here! That is so true. Can't understand what all the fuss is about. Windmills don't devalue land in my area at all!  A relation of mine lives approx 1/2 mile from a windfarm and you can only hear some kind of hum when the wind is coming from behind the windmills. It is hardly noticeable! I have seen ewes lambing underneath windmills, taken my horse for a ride past them...

The people that moan about windmills are the ones that are doing more harm to countryside. They are the people that move into an area because it is quaint, etc etc and wish the landscape to remain unchanged. These people are forcing young people to move from the contryside due to escalating house costs - that is by far a more worrying thing for the countryside.

I just think that people need to start thinking about more important issues than windmills - if we decided tommorrow that a wind farm should be dismantled there would be no lethal legacy or scars on the landscape... doesn't quite compare with nuclear does it??!!

Everybody is entitled to an opinion but the anti nonsense is just a tad boring!

Regards

Just to add to the debate here is a link to German company Skysails

"SkySails is now offering a wind propulsion system based on large towing kites, which, for the first time, meets the requirements of shipping companies."

http://www.skysails.info/index.php?id=6&L=1

I think wind power is not the only answer but one of many!!

To He His-Self. You are totally  disingenuous !

[1] Other forms of power generation are subject to PLANNED  variation at times ! For example to repair part of a coal-fired power station. That is completely different from the DANCING WIND !!

It  varies from  minute to minute , from place to place ! You cannot plan wind production. Besides it is so TRIVIAL , that's how they get away with it. Cefn Croes wind farm in Mid Wales has 39 MASSIVE turbines 327 ft high , each with an installed capacity of 1.5MW. So it totals  58.5MW.

However, OFGEM records for the SAME AREA  prove that  wind turbines only generate 22 per cent of installed over a year....HIGH UP IN THE HILLS!!  That means Cefn Croes will generate about  12.8MW on average. PATHETIC!! The wind farm  covers about  9 square miles of pristine scenery , which it has RUINED!!  All for a measly  12.8MW , when the UK uses 60000MW on a cold day!

Those Cefn Croes turbines are visible from hills 30 miles away!

Furthermore, they have been ON STOP FOR WEEKS, because at least SEVEN BLADES have had to be removed and replaced after just over a year, due to damage !!

[2]  I am not anti-children or anti-farmers. I am  ANTI- MONEY-GRUBBING  CHARLATANS  like you, who have admitted that you don't care if you devalue your neighbours' homes and farms . You are SELFISH  to the core and only care about yourself. You don't care about OTHER FARMERS !

You  SAID SO in an earlier answer, so don't call me anti-farmer. Lots of farmers have tourist enterprises. Your wind turbines ruin the tourism industry for miles around! You RUIN other farmers businesses !!

[3]  I have NEVER supported the BNP !! What do YOU know about me ? You have got personal and abusive, because you don't want the truth on wind energy to come out !! It is the BIGGEST CON of the 21st Century!! You won't silence me !!

[4]  You keep going on about the ASA. They SUPPORTED  three of my  complaints about  false wind energy advertising in 2003 /2004 !! That is FACT !!!

The ASA  will not get involved in web-sites. Have you seen the LIES on the www.ecotricity.com  site?

It says that two wind turbines at  Fords Dagenham provide the ELECTRICITY TO MAKE ALL THE DIESEL ENGINES !! PURE LIES !! Check Essex wind speeds on www.metoffice.com/education/archive/uk  . They  drop REGULARLY  below 9 knots.....sometimes for days , as in July !! So WHAT MADE THE DIESEL ENGINES AT THOSE TIMES ??? It is a pack of total lies !! It is a disgrace that , last year, the M.D  of Ecotricity , Dale Vince , was a member of the Renewables Advisory Board  , which advises the DTI on renewables.  He must be dishonest to claim that ALL DIESEL ENGINES  at Fords Dagenham are made by wind energy !

The 2 wind turbines feed the NATIONAL GRID  with a TRIVIAL amount of electricity ....NOW AND AGAIN !! The National Grid   provides the electricity ....MAINLY FROM FOSSILS ...to feed  Fords and every other factory, office and home in the UK !!

David 123. Don't make me laugh with your sails for ships . The sails are  TOYS !! They will only pull TOY SHIPS !! Do you realise the SIZE of the QE2 , an iron ore carrier , a Japanese oil tanker or even  a DOVER FERRY ??You must be totally INNUMERATE  and NON-TECHNICAL   if you think the wind will do much to propel those ! They are far TOO HEAVY!!

HMS Victory  was/is  a LARGE sailing ship, but she was A TOY compared to modern ships ! She was only about 220 ft long [ from memory...not checked!]. Even when we had sailing ships, they used to be caught without wind.....especially in  the Doldrums.....and had to get hundreds of  their sailors rowing  in front  in rowing boats to tow  them  in the hope of finding wind.  The price of tea used to shoot up when the cutters were  caught without wind  and delayed on their way back from India around the Cape of Good Hope. That is a well-known historical FACT!!

Can you imagine sailors in rowing boats trying to pull the QE2 ???????   Don't make me laugh !! It is more GREEN SPIN  for people who are as  about  as TECHNICAL AS A CABBAGE!!

Isambard Kingdom Brunel was voted the greatest Briton  !!   What was his MAIN ACHIEVEMENT? ....TO DUMP INEFFICIENT WIND ENERGY AND BUILD  MASSIVE STEAM SHIPS , THAT WERE BIGGER AND FASTER THAN THEIR PREDECESSORS!!

He built SS Great Britain. WHY, if wind was so brilliant ???

   Steam gave way to diesel and the ships  got FAR BIGGER !! Now wassocks think that WIND will power THEM !!! WISE UP  and GET REAL !!