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June 18, 1812

Started by kansasfarmer

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 62 total)

  • #868995

     
    Brian Hindkansasfarmer
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     Evidently yesterday was the 200th anniversary of the USA declaring war on Great Britain.  I know this because I read it on the BBC.  BBC gives a very different version of the reason than the ones I was taught in school.  It made me realize once again that history can be reported a number of different ways, and people on the other side of a historical event have an altogether different view on what happened.

    #868996

     
    bovrilbovril
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    I’ve always liked the phrase ‘History is written by the victors’.
    But in recent years it has been a very BBC thing to rewrite history showing British colonialism in a very bad light, showing all the negatives of the Empire (and some more they made up!) with none of the many positives.
    (I’ve no idea how the BBC reported yesterdays anniversary, so I may be speaking out of turn here!!)

  • #868997

     
    Tim RelfTim.Relf
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    bovril

    I’ve always liked the phrase ‘History is written by the victors’.

     

    And that ‘news is a first draft of history’….

    #868998

     
    Brian Hindkansasfarmer
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    We were taught in school that for the most part, the War of 1812 was caused because the British Navy kept pressing American merchant sailors into service, we quickly tired of this(given we weren’t all that keen on the British anyway) and declared war.  We eventually whipped you(again) but, you did burn Washington DC to the ground before we got it done(and perhaps Baltimore??). 

    BBC version is we started it because we were unhappy you were still in Canada(that is me paraphrasing what I took from the article).  I wonder what the truth actually is.  Perhaps a mix of both?

    Even though Great Britain banned the slave trade long before we did, your country flirted with the Confederacy throughout our Civil War.

    #868999

     
    2658336
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     I expect the reasons were quite complex: they usually are.  Thank goodness it happened when it did though:  by the standards of the time it was a tiny war, and there was relatively little damage or loss of life.  There was bound to be a war of independence sooner or later, and the whole history of the USA and indeed Britain would have been very different if it had been delayed for (say) 40 years:  there would have been mass destruction of people and property, and most probably great and ongoing bitterness between the two countries, rather than the mild and slightly wry amusement that the war gives both sides now.

    #869000

     
    Peter WellsPeter Wells
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    I remember reading that the British Army contained a lot of mercenaries who were not really interested in fighting the US forces. No doubt they thought that life would be better for them in the US rather than back home or in Britain.

    Like others, I expect the balance of feelings and facts is difficult to ascertain. But there can be no doubt that the US founding fathers did a good job in establishing a nation based on law rather than tribal loyalties.

    1812 was also the year that Napoleon was beaten by the Russians.

    I did however, enjoy the report about a new biography of Obama. It suggests that Obama’s grandfather who said that he was jailed and tortured by the British (in the years immediately prior to my time in Kenya)  Was not jailed at all nor tortured but that his family were being educated with British support to a higher level than the normal african of the time. I must say that in the late nineteen fifties the Kenyans Ugandans and Tanganyikans (which had previousely been a colony of Germany) made young chaps like me very welcome.

    Obama’s antipathy towards the British may therefore be based on a false account of historical evidence.

    #869001

     
    glasshouseglasshouse
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    kansas, did the usa not declare war on us to help their friends the french who we were at war with at the time, since about 1800 i think.?

    #869002

     
    peesie
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    Peter Wells

    I remember reading that the British Army contained a lot of mercenaries who were not really interested in fighting the US forces. No doubt they thought that life would be better for them in the US rather than back home or in Britain.

    Like others, I expect the balance of feelings and facts is difficult to ascertain. But there can be no doubt that the US founding fathers did a good job in establishing a nation based on law rather than tribal loyalties.

    1812 was also the year that Napoleon was beaten by the Russians.

    I did however, enjoy the report about a new biography of Obama. It suggests that Obama’s grandfather who said that he was jailed and tortured by the British (in the years immediately prior to my time in Kenya)  Was not jailed at all nor tortured but that his family were being educated with British support to a higher level than the normal african of the time. I must say that in the late nineteen fifties the Kenyans Ugandans and Tanganyikans (which had previousely been a colony of Germany) made young chaps like me very welcome.

    Obama’s antipathy towards the British may therefore be based on a false account of historical evidence.

    I’ve never really thought that Obama shows antipathy to Britain.Perhaps he doesnt pat the Prime Ministers head and say “youre a good little boy.More special than the other little ones.My favourite.” quite as often as previous US presidents have done.But thats hardly antipathy.More just treating Britain like any other little country.

    #869003

     
    old mcdonald
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     peesie, Cannot resist this one. You do offer great opportunities………. How big will an independent Scotalnd be in the eyes of a US President, and how will President Eck measure up alongside Obama in photo shoots?

    It is a shame really. Scotland is the greatest country in the world, and the Scottish people likewise, but every now and again, somebody comes out with a statement such as you posted.

    #869004

     
    peesie
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    It really surprises me how often the subject of independence is brought up on this forum.

    An independent Scotland will be a very small country of 5 million people with,per capita,more energy resource than nearly any other country.Similair population to NZ,Ireland Norway and Denmark.I assume the US will view it as such.I’m happy with that.Where do you get the president Eck thing from ? He’s First Minister.Scotland is not the greatest country in the world.But it has the potential to be a lot better than it currently is.

    #869005

     
    burocrat basher
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    Peese,

              You pre suppose that any Oil company is going to bother to get OIL out of the ground with Taxes from Hell to keep Scots on Benefit.You must appreciate if the Tax is too high it will be Good night from the Oil Companies. The Law of diminishing Returns.There is plenty of Oil in the World and the US  says it will be self sufficient in another three years.With respect you are dreaming ,People who Invest their Money want Return, try and rob it and they will be gone.

    #869006

     
    townietownie
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    old mcdonald

    and how will President Eck measure up alongside Obama in photo shoots?

    I think the latest pronouncements from Hollyrood state that they are intending to retain the Queen as head of state and the established church in it’s current status.  So no chance of Alex being anointed.  Personally, if I were a vote in Scotland, I would want all of these questions up for discussion: if you’re going to be an independent country you should start with a clean slate.  At least we have the reassurance that Mrs townie will be able to obtain a Scottish passport: presumably this concession is to ensure expat SNP funder Sean Connery isn’t disenfranchised!

     

    #869007

     
    glasshouseglasshouse
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    bb, once we are independent of one eyed english folks like you, we will probably reduce taxes on oil, as there are only 5 million of us.

    we will also probably close some fields to retain for future use, as us scots are canny with our resources.

    As to scots on benefit, there are ten times as many english on benefits .

    if thatcher hadnt screwed our industries, we wouldnt have as many on benefit

    in fact, if we had never been sold to england by our turncoat landlords,who faced invasion if they refused, we would be far better off.

    #869008

     
    Peter WellsPeter Wells
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    glasshouse

    bb, once we are independent of one eyed english folks like you, we will probably reduce taxes on oil, as there are only 5 million of us.

    glasshouse

    if thatcher hadnt screwed our industries, we wouldnt have as many on benefit

     

    glasshouse

    in fact, if we had never been sold to england by our turncoat landlords,who faced invasion if they refused, we would be far better off.

    Glasshouse, does it not occur to you that you appear somewhat one sided in your opinions on this issue?

    #869009

     
    glasshouseglasshouse
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    is it any wonder given all the one eyed carping?

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